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Polyglots mimic talking parrots | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| John Smith Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6041 days ago 396 posts - 542 votes  Speaks: English*, Czech*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 25 of 65 04 June 2010 at 10:13am | IP Logged | |||||
"Me" is the dative case! Me se libi cestina is not incorrect czech!!!!!!!! Mi is used in the written language (spisovna cestina). It is NOT used in the colloquial form. That's why most foreign speakers sound funny when they speak Czech. They use forms that are hyper correct. Also mi se libi just sounds wrong!!!!!!!! Libi se mi sounds better. I never studied the language. I'm a native speaker. Maybe you can figure out what's happening if I give you some examples Mne (dative) se libi (I like) libi se mi (I like) tobe se libi (you like) libi se ti (you like) Jemu se libi libi se mu Edited by John Smith on 04 June 2010 at 10:24am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Torbyrne Super Polyglot Senior Member Macedonia SpeakingFluently.com Joined 6094 days ago 126 posts - 721 votes Speaks: French, English*, German, Spanish, Dutch, Macedonian, Portuguese, Italian, Swedish, Czech, Catalan, Welsh, Serbo-Croatian Studies: Sign Language, Toki Pona, Albanian, Polish, Bulgarian, TurkishA1, Esperanto, Romanian, Danish, Mandarin, Icelandic, Modern Hebrew, Greek, Latvian, Estonian | Message 26 of 65 04 June 2010 at 10:41am | IP Logged | |||||
Interesting stuff. This is completely true. However, this is also true for every human being on the planet. How many people have made up their own language? Everything is copied or inspired by something. Even Dr. Zamenhof took inspiration from other existing languages. Languages are natural living things that are passed on from person to person by copying sounds. They evolve over time, but no one invents a new national language from scratch ever (at least not one that will catch on). Have you ever asked a native to translate something into their language they don't usually say? They need some thinking time too and can get it wrong - horror of all language horrors! ;) In fact I have had natives ask me to help think of a word or grammatical structure for them before now too. That does not mean I am better than them in that language though! The other thing I would like to point out is that even very learned people in their native tongue(s) have these "stumbles" when they are caught off-guard. Ever seen someone being interviewed on topics they know little about? Or someone nervous at an interview? Or even an expert asked a question slightly left of field? Does that mean they no longer speak their native tongue? Not at all, they are simply on unfamiliar ground and may need to take time to correctly word a response. This happens to us all in all languages. If it doesn't happen to you, you are a walking wonder. As a learner of a language this may occur more frequently in the beginning and then the instances of it reduce over time as we get more exposure to various subjects. However, natural interest and ability to think about certain subjects will always play a role and may never be overcome. If you can't talk about nuclear physics, 19th century Russian literature, biology or politics in English and you then learn Swahili, does it mean you will miraculously acquire that knowledge then? Nope! :) Does that make you less fluent in the language? Certainly on that topic, but not necessarily in the language as a whole. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5668 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 27 of 65 04 June 2010 at 10:41am | IP Logged | |||||
Just for clarity, John Smith and I are now off-lining this discussion to private messages, since it would off-track the thread. Needless to say, I disagree completely about "me" being even colloquial czech. If interesting results come from this discussion we will post them here. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| John Smith Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6041 days ago 396 posts - 542 votes Speaks: English*, Czech*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 28 of 65 04 June 2010 at 10:47am | IP Logged | |||||
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I am a native speaker. Not a native writer ( I live in an English speaking country) I confused two words that sound the same but are spelt differently.
A case of......... I sea the girl instead of I see the girl. Or There house is big instead of Their house is big. The two words in question are Me (with a little thing above the e) and Mne Both sound the same. Splog's example mi se libi is incorrect. Edited by John Smith on 04 June 2010 at 10:49am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5668 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 29 of 65 04 June 2010 at 10:54am | IP Logged | |||||
Great, thanks for that clarification. "Mně“ is perfectly acceptable as an emphatic form of first person dative.
It is not. It is correct both in written and spoken Czech. The word order is quirky, but I merely replicated your own word order for illustration. This, however, is straying off topic, and we should not pollute the thread with our arguments. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| John Smith Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6041 days ago 396 posts - 542 votes Speaks: English*, Czech*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 30 of 65 04 June 2010 at 11:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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Mi se libi is not correct written Czech. The form mi cannot occur before se. It might be able to in Morava. They don't speak standard Czech there. I apologise if that is the case.
I believe that this discussion is relevant so please do not remove it. It shows that a native speaker can pick up things advanced foreign language learners cannot. I guess what this all boils down to is the same age old question. How do you define the word fluent? Is it sounding like a native speaker? Is it being able to get your point across? Edited by John Smith on 04 June 2010 at 11:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5668 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin | Message 31 of 65 04 June 2010 at 11:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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OK, if you want to keep it in the thread rather than continuing in PMs ...
Well, none of the examples are correct since they all miss the subject. However, I assumed we were doing this on purpose since they were not central to the discussion. If we put the subject in, we have to decide where to put it. We could say something like "To se mi líbí“ (the most common construction) but can equally say "Mi se líbí to“ if it is "to" that we want to emphasise. You could also say "To se líbí mi“ to emphasise it is me rather than somebody else that is being pleased, but then I would expect to use the emphatic "mně" instead. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| John Smith Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6041 days ago 396 posts - 542 votes Speaks: English*, Czech*, Spanish Studies: German | Message 32 of 65 04 June 2010 at 11:11am | IP Logged | |||||
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Czech doesn't need a subject. English does Czeh does not.
Compare It rains and Prsi (no subject) You cannot say mi se libi to It sounds wrong Mi cannot occur before se. I never studied Czech grammar so I don't know how else to explain it. I don't know how my native language works. I just speak it. Edited by John Smith on 04 June 2010 at 11:18am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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