|
 |
Koine Greek Translation Discussion Thread | ||
Tags: Ancient Greek | Translation | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Multilingual Lounge |  | |
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 5918 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes  22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 1 of 28 05 February 2010 at 12:03am | IP Logged | ||
|
I propose here a thread to discuss translation issues related to Koine Greek. I think there are enough of us in the forum who are studying Koine Greek to make this a worthwhile and interesting endeavor.
I will start with the following which is a good example of one of my favorite topics in Koine Greek translastion: translation versus transliteration. 1 Cor 16:22 reads as follows in the Greek: ει τις ου φιλει τον κυριον ητω αναθεμα μαρανα θα However, the three most popular English versions translate αναθεμα μαρανα θα in three different ways ranging from full transliteration (KJV) to translation of αναθεμα and transliteration of μαρανα θα (NASB) to full translation (NIV): If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. KJV If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be accursed Maranatha. NASB If anyone does not love the Lord—a curse be on him. Come, O Lord! NIV What are your thoughts as to the best way to handle αναθεμα μαρανα θα in the English? Edited by JW on 05 February 2010 at 12:05am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sir Lunch-a-lot Groupie Canada Joined 5322 days ago 58 posts - 64 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Ancient Greek | Message 2 of 28 14 February 2010 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | ||
|
If this is something that even "professional" translators have trouble with, then ones best bet would be to consult one of the more technical commentaries to see if we can shed some light on the difficult language. Reading in the Pulpit Commentary, μαρανα θα seems to mean something to the effect of "The Lord Cometh".
"...Maran-atha; two words, the Lord cometh; like the Jewish shem atha, 'the Name cometh,' or, 'the Lord comes.' It seems to be an appeal to the judgment of Christ, and may possibly have been an allusion to Malachi 4:6, the words with which the Old Testament ends (see Jude 14, 15)" -- Pulpit Commentary As for αναθεμα, based on the same commentary, it seems that it is a sort of curse: "Let him be Anathema. The word only occurs elsewhere in Acts 12:3; 23. 14; Romans 9:3; Galatians 1:8, 9 (comp. Matthew 26:74, “to curse”). It is the equivalent of the Hebrew cherem, a ban (Leviticus 27:29; Joshua 6:17, etc.)" -- Pulpit Commentary So, if this commentator is indeed correct, I would have to concur with the NIV's translation. However, it is not something I would stress on for too long since it occurs rather infrequently. If either of us get to the point where we can comprehend all of the New Testament with the exception of a few obscure phrases like this, I'd say we are doing alright, since it seems that even many of the best scholars had issues wit these few words (as we can see in the King James). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 5918 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 3 of 28 15 February 2010 at 12:49am | IP Logged | ||
I would argue for the NASB translation. My reasoning is that αναθεμα is a Greek word, thus I don't see the reason for not translating it into English. As you point out it is the equivalent of the Hebrew חֵ֥רֶם cherem, a ban, thus the Septuagint generally translates cherem as αναθεμα. However, μαρανα θα is Aramaic and not Greek. It was transliterated by the Apostle Paul in the original Greek of 1 Cor 16:22 and thus should be transliterated in the English translation. I would also add that this is equivalent to the other Aramaic terms in the NT (e.g., see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_of_Jesus ) which should also be transliterated and not translated. That being said, the full transliteration of the KJV "Anathema Maranatha" is beautifully alliterative and the full translation of the NIV communicates the meaning very well so all three versions are appealing to me. Edited by JW on 15 February 2010 at 12:53am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sir Lunch-a-lot Groupie Canada Joined 5322 days ago 58 posts - 64 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Ancient Greek | Message 4 of 28 15 February 2010 at 1:39am | IP Logged | ||
|
I see your point on using the NASB, particularly if a period is inserted after "accursed", as is done in my copy of said translation. I guess the question as to whether μαραναθα should be translated or transliterated would take a bit of looking into the cultural context. Since the letter is directed to Corinth, most of the Gentile Christians would probably not have a clue as to what μαρανα θα meant. However, there apparently was a significant Jewish presence in the city (according to Unger's Bible Handbook), so there would likely have been enough readers/listeners who would have caught the otherwise obscure word. Since most people in the church today do not speak or read Aramaic, it would seem appropriate to me to translate it. On the other hand, if one is to transliterate it so as to preserve the elegant obscurity that it may have once held, then it would make sense to give the translation as a footnote, perhaps even noting that it is actually transliterated Aramaic. Edited by Sir Lunch-a-lot on 15 February 2010 at 1:46am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 5918 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 5 of 28 15 February 2010 at 2:15am | IP Logged | ||
Actually, this is essentially how Martin Luther handled it. His translation (Luther Bible of 1545) reads: So jemand den HERRN Jesus Christus nicht liebhat, der sei anathema. Maran atha! (das heißt: der sei verflucht. Unser HERR kommt!) If anyone does not love the LORD Jesus Christ, be he anathema. Maran atha! (that is: be he accursed. Our LORD come!) Edited by JW on 15 February 2010 at 2:17am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 5918 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 6 of 28 17 February 2010 at 3:25am | IP Logged | ||
|
Here's another interesting translation issue: The KJV translates ξυλον in 1 Pet 2:24 as tree as does the NIV. However, The NASB translates it as cross. Which is the better translation of ξυλον ?
ος τας αμαρτιας ημων αυτος ανηνεγκεν εν τω σωματι αυτου επι το ξυλον ινα ταις αμαρτιαις απογενομενοι τη δικαιοσυνη ζησωμεν ου τω μωλωπι ιαθητε Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. KJV He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. NIV and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. NASB 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Theodisce Octoglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5682 days ago 127 posts - 167 votes Speaks: Polish*, Latin, Ancient Greek, Russian, Czech, French, English, German Studies: Italian, Spanish, Slovak, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Greek, Portuguese | Message 7 of 28 18 February 2010 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Old Testament prophets talk much about a man hanged on a tree, I believe it's the direct influence of Hebrew Bible (or rather Septuagint), therefore there is no need to translate it with the word "cross", for it is not only a interpretation, but it makes the OT allusion less obvious. Edited by Theodisce on 18 February 2010 at 9:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 5918 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 8 of 28 19 February 2010 at 12:36am | IP Logged | ||
Good point. I believe you are referring to Deut 21:22-23 And if there be sin in any one, [and] the judgment of death [be upon him], and he be put to death, and ye hang him on a tree: 23 his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but ye shall by all means bury it in that day; for every one that is hanged on a tree is cursed of God; and ye shall by no means defile the land which the Lord thy God gives thee for an inheritance. This reads as follows in the Septuagint: ᾿Εὰν δὲ γένηται ἔν τινι ἁμαρτία κρίμα θανάτου καὶ ἀποθάνῃ καὶ κρεμάσητε αὐτὸν ἐπὶ ξύλου, οὐ κοιμηθήσεται τὸ σῶμα αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τοῦ ξύλου, ἀλλὰ ταφῇ θάψετε αὐτὸ ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ, ὅτι κεκατηραμένος ὑπὸ Θεοῦ πᾶς κρεμάμενος ἐπὶ ξύλου· καὶ οὐ μὴ μιανεῖτε τὴν γῆν, ἣν Κύριος ὁ Θεός σου δίδωσί σοι ἐν κλήρῳ. This verse is quoted by the Apostle Paul in Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"-- χριστος ημας εξηγορασεν εκ της καταρας του νομου γενομενος υπερ ημων καταρα οτι γεγραπται επικαταρατος πας ο κρεμαμενος επι ξυλου Edited by JW on 19 February 2010 at 12:37am 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
