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The role and usefulness of Irish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5180 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 41 of 162 19 June 2010 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I will point out that the education system here in Ireland and Britain have a lot of faults when it comes to language learning.The Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries are light years ahead of us when it comes to foreign language learning. Nearly all Dutch and Scandinavians can speak near perfect English because they learn English at an early plus their education systems place a high priority when it comes to foreign language learning. As I said before and my view stands that most Irish people would be better off learning a mainland European language rather than Irish because it's far more useful in the world.Yes people should not be forced to learn a language be it Irish and/or a mainland European language.The Irish govt should stop making Irish a complusory subject and make it voluntary instead. Edited by stout on 19 June 2010 at 8:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5143 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 42 of 162 19 June 2010 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Wow! It is not often that I read posts which both bring tears to my eyes, and make me want to go to summer school in Ireland to learn Irish. My only claim to Irishness is an American aunt whose family was Irish, but Norwegians often feel quite close to the Irish. We share our love for beer, for traditionally having been very poor people (which is why Ireland and Norway were proportionally two of the biggest immigrant groups to the US), our love of potatoes and having dominant neighbours who colonized us and oppressed us. Grantedly we were treated a lot better than the Irish, possibly because there were no difference of religion involved, but we were still viewed as backward and as a lot less sophisticated. I absolutely love the Irish accent. If Irish is anything like the accent it must be lovely. I can understand the point of view that it makes more sense to learn a foreign language, In fact I use the same argument when it comes to the Norwegian attempt at recreating/renewing the older Norwegian language, (nynorsk), and making it compulsory in school. I would still support the efforts of reviving Irish. If the Israelis can, you can. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5820 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 43 of 162 19 June 2010 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You started it. Personally, I think calling someone an ignorant bigot and a moron is far more sporting than calling the language of a group of living people "dead", "useless" and "living in the past". If you can't see that, then you are an ignorant bigot, and I won't apologise for calling a spade a spade.
Yes, but that's different. They started with teachers who speak English. And it's English. English is cool! It's on the TV, at the cinema, on the radio. It's also a member of the same language family as their native tongues. What happened there happened there, and not anywhere else, for a reason.
That's not what you said. If you'd said that first time, I might have agreed with you. However, it's too late because I still believe you meant what you said earlier.
Being pragmatic, I still can't see where the teachers are coming from, or the academic achievement. From a pragmatic viewpoint, teaching any other language is as much a waste of time as teaching Irish as the attainment levels will be at least as low as with Irish -- probably lower, because less parents will be able to help with the homework.... (Edit: And again, the wording of your earlier post was hardly dispassionate. For you to say it's pragmatic after such an emotionally charged outburst is hard to believe.) Edited by Cainntear on 19 June 2010 at 10:20pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6718 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 44 of 162 20 June 2010 at 1:02am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I hate to say this, but I have never had a native teacher in any language but Swedish. Nevertheless, I (and most other Swedes) managed to learn some decent English. So, if the Irish school system abandons Gaeilge (God forbid!) in favour of Spanish/French/German/etc, it doesn't have to mean that the students will learn a bad version of the language. They just won't have the "native teacher advantage". This being said, I believe that Irish is a living language. I've met too many who have (said that they have) spoken Irish as their first language. I've also witnessed pub conversations, attended concerts with bilingual hosts and so on. I sincerely hope that the language will survive (and grow). 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5143 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 45 of 162 20 June 2010 at 1:37am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
All my English teachers were Norwegians too all the way up to the University (and some of them with the most horrific accents imaginable). The main reasons why we learn English well are undubbed TV, music and the Internet. Give us that amount of exposure in Russian, including the compulsury learning since the 1st grade, and we'll amaze you with our Russian as well. :-) 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5180 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 46 of 162 20 June 2010 at 1:52am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
You started it. Personally, I think calling someone an ignorant bigot and a moron is far more sporting than calling the language of a group of living people "dead", "useless" and "living in the past". If you can't see that, then you are an ignorant bigot, and I won't apologise for calling a spade a spade. To:Cainntear... If I think that Irish is not useful to learn as a language.Then thats my opinion and perogative and I am perfectly entitiled to that.However running down fellow forum members because they do not agree with your views is below the belt and breaking the rules of this forum. So please enough of the disparaging remarks and keep to rules of this forum. Stout... Edited by stout on 20 June 2010 at 2:13am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Declan1991 Tetraglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6248 days ago 233 posts - 359 votes Speaks: English*, German, Irish, French | Message 47 of 162 20 June 2010 at 11:57am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Furthermore, you state (and make up statistics to support) the fact that compulsory education achieves nothing. I agree with you on that. The people who like Irish and who want to learn it, like me, did. Those who didn't, didn't. But you then go on to say that instead a European language should be put in its place. The language makes no difference, people still won't learn it, as evidenced by the fact that they don't learn their second of third language unless they want to. Solfrid, a product of the educational system you praise so highly, has said, exposure and motivation are the reason that huge numbers of students learn English. They want to watch television, listen to pop music, and get involved in forums like this. Compulsory education in school is irrelevant, it just doesn't work. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Aras Groupie United States Joined 6567 days ago 76 posts - 83 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Ancient Greek | Message 48 of 162 20 June 2010 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Irish isn't as useful to learn, from an economic perspective and taking into account the linguistic layout of Europe, as some other European tongues. However, the term 'useful' - while inclusive of economic benefits and the speaker-base - isn't limited to those, as an astute scholar (or, at the very least, a native English speaker) such as yourself must be aware. The term 'useful' could very well be used to denote many more uses, such as conversing with other Irish speakers, obtaining a job related to the language and advancing the status of Irish in Ireland. Those seem to fit the definition of the word 'useful' quite nicely. Just because you have the right to an opinion doesn't negate the rights of the rest of us to call you out on it. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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