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EU & Languages: Policies and your view? | ||
Tags: Europe | Multilingual | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5635 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 1 of 66 03 July 2010 at 4:04pm | IP Logged |
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First some language facts about the great European Union :-)
Official language(s) Bulgarian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovene, Spanish and Swedish Semi-official; Catalan, Galician and Basque. Significant unofficial language(s) Luxembourgish, Turkish, Russian, Welsh, Romani, Scottish Gaelic, Walloon, Frisian, Saami, Breton, Sardinian, Corsican, Friulian Main immigrant language(s) Russian, Turkish, Arabic, Chinese, Serbo-Croatian and Hindi. Main foreign language(s) English, French, German, Russian and Spanish are the most commonly studied and spoken foreign languages. Source: Wikipedia ------------------------------------------------------- So with the EU allegedly striving towards an "ever closer union" etc, etc... What actual language policies does it have that are recommended or stipulated across the area? Does anyone know? Any minimum amount of foreign language study requirements and if so, does anyone know what they are? Does the EU have any known vision of the linguistic future of Europe.... Do you think it ought to have one, or leave that area alone? Do you (as a European) have a view on the need (or lack thereof) of a common language to be used across the EU? If you go to Greece, Poland, Slovakia, Finland or Portugal how would you prefer to communicate with people, assuming you don't know the local languages... ? Have you ever been in a hopeless language situation in the EU, where you weren't able to communicate, but needed to.. (I have..) What happened? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| arturs Triglot Senior Member Latvia Joined 5068 days ago 278 posts - 408 votes Speaks: Latvian*, Russian, English | Message 2 of 66 03 July 2010 at 4:33pm | IP Logged |
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I think the official languages are more for the legal purposes, like avoidance of any discrimination, for example everyone in the European Parliament can talk his own language if he wants, and is not forced to use English, French or German (or whatever language), etc.
I don't think there should be a one language for all Europe, but I still have to admit that, like it or not, the most accepted language is English. Apparently, no one in Europe has problems with that. German could be the second most important language, because it is spoken in many countries in Europe. Never been to Greece and Portugal. In Poland I can get along with English if I'm talking to a person that is max 30 years old. With older people there is no choice but to communicate in Russian. In Slovakia there are some problems, but you can survive with Russian and English. Some people know German. In Finland nearly every granny knows English, so it's not a problem. Never been hopeless, but still had some awkward moments in Czech Republic. In a restaurant in Hluboká nad Vltavou I asked for coffee with milk. I didn't know how milk is in Czech so I said it in Russian - молоко. And then in English - milk. The funniest par was that she didn't get it. And only after 15 seconds she said "Aaaa s mlékem". Like the words are similar, but still she didn't get it. Edited by arturs on 03 July 2010 at 4:34pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| ChristianVlcek Bilingual Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5648 days ago 131 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Slovak*, Ukrainian, Irish, German, Russian | Message 3 of 66 03 July 2010 at 4:54pm | IP Logged |
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Hrm, in Slovakia everyone must take foreign language classes, though I don't know until what grade it's mandatory, with the most common languages for students to study in school are English and German.
As for the EU having a determined Linguistic future, I think that needs to be left to member states/citizens to decide on an individual basis. Regardless of any official position, I think many young Slovaks realize (at least to some extent) the importance of speaking a "larger" language than Slovak for business and employment purposes (German, and more so, English), so I think ultimately this will take care of itself. I don't believe that the EU should make any mandates of what languages must be spoken/learned as that in my view will lead to compromising/marginalizing individual cultures and linguistic heritages. As for what language I would prefer to speak in a given country, well that's not my choice to make. I of course would prefer to speak English or Slovak, however I can't force an Italian or a Greek to speak them if they either don't know them, or don't want to speak in anything but Greek. I think from an economic and global perspective everyone should have a command of another language, if at the very least to tell others to screw off if they get too pushy about it. Ultimately I think it's in every European's best interests in terms of outside contact to speak a language other than the local one, but it they choose not to, I don't think I should have even a say in what language they wish to speak. I've never been totally hopeless in Europe, everyone I've ever wanted to speak with, or had a need to speak with, I've been able to work around it using weird mixes of languages that both they and I have some kind of knowledge of. Kudos to anyone who reads their way through that mess =D 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| shahvlad Newbie Belgium Joined 5106 days ago 19 posts - 38 votes | Message 4 of 66 03 July 2010 at 5:25pm | IP Logged |
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The EU is certainly "big" but not a "great" organization in my view. I don't believe in such a thing as an "European" identity, to me that's a very artificial idea, hence it won't come as a surprise that I'm not fond of the idea that the EU should regulate which languages people ought to be taught in schools, for instance, or introduce a single official language. I firmly believe member states and individuals are best able to decide which languages are most practical or beneficial to them. Also, language is more often than not linked to one's culture and ethnicity. If they ever decide to introduce an official language that everyone is required to learn from childhood onward that would equal to me the destruction of the European continent's great and natural cultural and linguistic diversity. It might also be interpreted as a sign of favoritism and political dominance of the country where the language is spoken.
I don't know exactly what the plans of the EU are with regard to languages, but if it were up to me, I would let member states decide which languages should be taught in schools based on their own internal political situation, location, history, and especially on the usefulness of languages for business purposes, which should really be determined by employer's demand for individuals who speak certain languages. On the individual level, let's say some people don't want to study English despite it being the most useful language on earth today, well, that's really their own problem - and their good right. Even in this day and age many people can survive perfectly well knowing virtually no language other than their native language. I would also let EU MPs continue to be allowed to speak in their native languages if they wish to do so. After all, how do you decide which is the most important language? Okay, German has most speakers. But English is more useful globally. And French? I'm sure the Germans and the British would love that. Or how about Turkish in the future? I'm sorry but no, thanks. All of that is not to say I didn't wish everyone spoke foreign languages better and at least an 'international' language. Sometimes it bugs me that people don't care to study English, French or some other regionally important language, but in the end I don't think any of these 'pet peeves' justify even more EU regulation. Who decides what's important? Should a Fleming like myself determine what languages a Romanian ought to study just so I can get served in my language of choice if I visit their country? I didn't think so. If everyone's pet peeves or travel inconveniences were to be the basis of government regulation, we would soon find ourselves living in totalitarianism. I'd rather endure listening to heavy accents and keep our great natural diversity. And hey, situations where you can't understand the other person and need to resort to gestures can be fun too! ;) Just my thoughts on this issue. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |
| ChristianVlcek Bilingual Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5648 days ago 131 posts - 141 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Slovak*, Ukrainian, Irish, German, Russian | Message 5 of 66 03 July 2010 at 6:20pm | IP Logged |
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I think that when it boils down, any language legislation that goes beyond what languages can be used in the EU's processes (in which case every member state must have the right to use its own language), enters the realm of legislating culture, which is something that no government, or multinational institution should be allowed to touch. Nor do I believe the linguistic views of Germans or Greeks, or any other EU member country/associate should have the slightest bearing on what language(s) I can use in Slovakia.
But I don't think that Europe will ever have much of a problem with languages and the inability to communicate beyond national borders. You have so many countries in such a comparatively small area, that it's only natural for them to start learning each other's languages for economic and personal reasons. Because of this, I think any legislation on the matter would be up to one point a waste of paper, and beyond that an overstepping of government regulatory powers (and seriously, we can find more pressing issues to spend our time on I think). Plus as for diplomats and MEPs within the union, if we begin to legislate the languages that the European parliament is allowed to work in, then we openly create a cultural bias within the laws of a union which is *supposed* to be avoiding that. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| chucknorrisman Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5245 days ago 321 posts - 435 votes Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French | Message 6 of 66 03 July 2010 at 8:01pm | IP Logged |
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I think a lingua franca would be nice, but I hope it would be something that is culturally neutral, easy to learn, and only taught as a second language. Esperanto seems like a good choice, but it doesn't seem like the population of EU will decide to learn it anytime soon. There is actually a political party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_%E2%80%93_Democracy_%E2 %80%93_Esperanto) that promotes Esperanto as a lingua franca, but its influence is almost negligible so far.
About Basque I have a quick question. Is it still used widely in the Basque County, or is Spanish the dominant language there already? I'm not European and haven't been to Europe yet, but still my two cents. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5635 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 7 of 66 03 July 2010 at 8:44pm | IP Logged |
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My personal view is:
The case is stronger for: French German Russian ...than English. All these languages have more native speakers on the European continent than English! The reason we speak English is because of the dominance USA, which is not a European country and which does not support the same goals that we do in many areas. The choice of second language has consequences far beyond just the study-time involved. Once you made that investment you get drawn towards the culture of the area where that language is spoken, and you are much more likely to buy into the agenda of the country in question. I think it would be better for Europeans to be focusing our attention more on our own continent, culturally and politically. But we gaze to the West all the time, because of English. Many people will recall my rants about the suitability of Esperanto as a lingua franca for Europe, because it offends no-one, is "made in Europe" and easy to learn for everyone. Funny thing is, despite all these arguments, most Europeans are still so keen on English, or at least willing to accept its ubiquity as a fait accompli.I am not denying that without fluent English I would not have the career I have today. But what if fluent Esperanto could have opened the same doors that English did? Unless people change their minds, I am afraid Arturs is right, and English will end up being the lingua franca of Europe. We will remain under strong US influence both in terms of culture and politics. The EU is still expanding; all the Yugoslavian countries with their languages, Iceland, Albania, Moldova.... More and more languages and no policy from the EU. I think we should make up our mind about a common language one way or another! 9 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Thatzright Diglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5469 days ago 202 posts - 311 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English Studies: French, Swedish, German, Russian | Message 8 of 66 03 July 2010 at 10:06pm | IP Logged |
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There is nothing wrong with English being used as the "lingua franca" of Europe. It is not the lingua franca because some evil overlords have decided to implement Anglo-Saxon supremacy over the entire continent, but because it happened to be in the right place at the right time. If the internet and all of this stuff had been established around a century ago, French would likely be in the place of English. But as fate would have it, France's dominance did not last until globalization really kicked into full gear, and with the United States happening to be the only superpower at the time of the internet truly starting to grow steam, this is what we have.
Almost every European of school age is being taught English and it would be quite ridiculous (albeit I do admit it makes more sense from a linguistic standpoint) from a practical point of view to come out one day and say "We are no longer using English to communicate with eachother because it's just kinda tainted and all, and implies American supremacy over all of us." Cordelia, I have seen you being worried before about English words and influence making their way to smaller European languages little by little and in this case I do agree with you, that we do need to protect languages that are not English and should even attempt to prevent them adopting English words that have proper equivalents in the languages in question. Esperanto is not a neutral language if we consider a language for all of the continent, its grammar and vocabulary borrow heavily from the Romance languages and even the name of the language is taken from the Spanish verb "espérer". German as the lingua franca of Europe would make sense considering that Germany is the economical powerhouse of the continent, but whether we like it or not, outside of us who are genuinely interested in languages and thus hold no prejudices against any of them, there is still a bit of a negative stigma around German due to the unfortunate events of the first half of the 20th century. Maybe it's not a big stigma, but it's there. The same goes for Russian too, I wonder how the Baltic states, Poland, the Chezch Republic, Slovakia and Hungary would react if the Council of Europe announced that Russian would be adopted as the second 'lingua franca' of Europe for starters. Finally, I would just like to point out that none of this is intended to come off as hostile or attacking in any way, I just figured I'd write things how I see here. Above all, I do not want to start political bickering or arguing with this. I must admit that the lingua franca could be something else than English if the situation wasn't already so overwhelmingly in its favor - in our eyes English may represent American and British supremacy over others, but 95% of Europeans don't care about this at all as long as they can get along with eachother using it. Can't say I blame them. I don't see a reason to start fixing something that isn't broken. As far as EU's policies go, I would like to see them actively try to preserve languages that are in danger of dying out or are approaching such a point. I also actually do think that the importance of learning precisely languages like French and German in addition to English should be emphasized too. Edited by Thatzright on 03 July 2010 at 10:10pm 12 persons have voted this message useful |
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