Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Would you recomd. your strategy

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
30 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4  Next >>
kidshomestunner
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 6201 days ago
239 posts - 285 votes 
Speaks: Japanese

 
 Message 17 of 30
14 July 2010 at 1:35am | IP Logged 
Volte wrote:
kidshomestunner wrote:
No method for learning a foreign language is particularly difficult: Can you name one that is?


Sure, a lot of methods are for various people.

Memorizing whole books word-for-word is difficult for most people.
Audio-based methods are difficult for the deaf.
Methods based on written literature are difficult for the severely dyslexic or functionally illiterate.
Drill-based methods are totally unsuitable (and extremely difficult) for people like me who turn off thinking and do the drills mechanically - I can profit from some grammar-based exercises, etc, but I simply cannot successfully use FSI.
True L-R is impossible for people who don't have the time to do it intensively.
Methods which are contrary to your perception about how you should learn, or otherwise frustrate you or cause cognitive dissonance are more difficult.
Methods which take a lot of self-discipline, rote learning, or other attribute in which the average level of your society is low are going to be difficult for most members of that society.

Deaf people are not normal they are a minority. I said a minority could not learn.
I have never heard of anyone suggesting memorising a whole book as a method of language learning
You do not have to turn off during drills
Dyslexia: you are very labelling of dyslexia http://www.happydyslexic.com/node/14
and yet again SEVERELY dyslexic people are a very, very small percentage I said a minority could not learn. Besides many schools get more money for special needs kids so it is in their interests to diagnose and label, punish and condemn. How many are 'really' dyslexic????
The last argument is nonsense, you are just reeling off the defecit theory... How do you explain the kids from awful backgrounds who achieve?

Serena and Venus Williams had atrocious upbringings but can focus on a very hard sport.
1 person has voted this message useful



Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6235 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 18 of 30
14 July 2010 at 3:04am | IP Logged 
kidshomestunner wrote:
Volte wrote:
kidshomestunner wrote:
No method for learning a foreign language is particularly difficult: Can you name one that is?


Sure, a lot of methods are for various people.

Memorizing whole books word-for-word is difficult for most people.
Audio-based methods are difficult for the deaf.
Methods based on written literature are difficult for the severely dyslexic or functionally illiterate.
Drill-based methods are totally unsuitable (and extremely difficult) for people like me who turn off thinking and do the drills mechanically - I can profit from some grammar-based exercises, etc, but I simply cannot successfully use FSI.
True L-R is impossible for people who don't have the time to do it intensively.
Methods which are contrary to your perception about how you should learn, or otherwise frustrate you or cause cognitive dissonance are more difficult.
Methods which take a lot of self-discipline, rote learning, or other attribute in which the average level of your society is low are going to be difficult for most members of that society.

Deaf people are not normal they are a minority. I said a minority could not learn.


They can learn, but not via methods that require them to hear.

kidshomestunner wrote:

I have never heard of anyone suggesting memorising a whole book as a method of language learning


Search the forum or the web, then.

kidshomestunner wrote:

You do not have to turn off during drills


That's nice in theory, but I've done so from my earliest memories, and have not found a way not to, despite trying hard.

kidshomestunner wrote:

Dyslexia: you are very labelling of dyslexia http://www.happydyslexic.com/node/14
and yet again SEVERELY dyslexic people are a very, very small percentage I said a minority could not learn. Besides many schools get more money for special needs kids so it is in their interests to diagnose and label, punish and condemn. How many are 'really' dyslexic????


Dyslexic people can learn, and learn extremely well - many of them are very bright - but not all of them can learn via reading.

Many people are really dyslexic; the motives of schools are a fascinating discussion, but rather off-topic for this forum.

kidshomestunner wrote:

The last argument is nonsense, you are just reeling off the defecit theory... How do you explain the kids from awful backgrounds who achieve?

Serena and Venus Williams had atrocious upbringings but can focus on a very hard sport.


I have no idea what the "deficit theory" is; you'll have to enlighten me if you care to discuss it. I know nothing about the upbringing of the Williams' sisters, but given that most people don't focus on a very hard sport (whether or not their upbringings are atrocious), I fail to see how this is any kind of counter-example.

A minority of people can do something far outside the norms of their culture. However, most adults who went through Western school systems wouldn't dream of attempting something like "The Korean's language acquisition" or "All Japanese all the Time" (and many parents with jobs simply have no way of putting in that sort of time).

Another example: a tiny minority of people have the ability to parrot back phrases, and remember them (and generate new phrases based on them as they learn more) after hearing them once, with near-native pronunciation. Mezzofanti was reputed to have this ability; I also know a contemporary person who approaches this closely. Any learning method which heavily relies on unusual abilities is unsuited for most people.

2 persons have voted this message useful



jplain
Newbie
United States
Joined 5093 days ago
23 posts - 34 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 19 of 30
14 July 2010 at 3:28am | IP Logged 
kidshomestunner wrote:
Serena and Venus Williams had atrocious upbringings but can focus on a very hard sport.

Off topic, but upbringing is synonymous with parenting/childrearing. Don't confuse it with hometown and/or family income. The Williams sisters were poor and lived in a crime-ridden city, but they had dedicated and caring parents.
1 person has voted this message useful



kidshomestunner
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 6201 days ago
239 posts - 285 votes 
Speaks: Japanese

 
 Message 20 of 30
14 July 2010 at 4:24am | IP Logged 
jplain wrote:
kidshomestunner wrote:
Serena and Venus Williams had atrocious upbringings but can focus on a very hard sport.

Off topic, but upbringing is synonymous with parenting/childrearing. Don't confuse it with hometown and/or family income. The Williams sisters were poor and lived in a crime-ridden city, but they had dedicated and caring parents.


No it isn't.

It isn't just your parents that bring you up... It is the environment...
1 person has voted this message useful



NuclearGorilla
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6582 days ago
166 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: English*, German
Studies: Japanese, French

 
 Message 21 of 30
14 July 2010 at 5:43am | IP Logged 
I am familiar with Keith's method; I use a method that is at least very similar if not the same. As I have not yet experienced success with it, I would not likely recommend it to others. The method requires quite a bit of patience as well, so I agree with Keith's sentiment of not recommending it to everybody.
1 person has voted this message useful



kidshomestunner
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 6201 days ago
239 posts - 285 votes 
Speaks: Japanese

 
 Message 22 of 30
14 July 2010 at 1:39pm | IP Logged 
NuclearGorilla wrote:
I am familiar with Keith's method; I use a method that is at least very similar if not the same. As I have not yet experienced success with it, I would not likely recommend it to others. The method requires quite a bit of patience as well, so I agree with Keith's sentiment of not recommending it to everybody.


just out of interest could you describe it a bit?
1 person has voted this message useful





Keith
Diglot
Moderator
JapanRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6573 days ago
526 posts - 536 votes 
1 sounds
Speaks: English*, Japanese
Studies: Mandarin
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 23 of 30
14 July 2010 at 5:24pm | IP Logged 
kidshomestunner wrote:
Keith wrote:
This thread proves there is a lot of different advice or different recommendations on how to learn a language.

Would I recommend my strategy? Yes.
But not to just anyone. I would first have to question the learner to find out if they qualify. Only a few special people are really qualified. The others would just give up right away, so it's not really worth spending the time trying to encourage them.


That's nonsense. Eugene Nida states that almost anyone can learn a foreign language and Gunnermark and Gethin say the same thing with different words in the art and science of language learning. It isn't that hard. Saying that "only a few special people are qualified" without any references to back this up is elitist, ridiculous, and perhaps more importantly without reference or argument. It is just a statement. I have three heavyweight polyglots behind my argument who do you have behind yours????


It's interesting how you refute arguments that were never made. I didn't say anything about anyone not being able to learn a language. I didn't say anything about the difficulty of learning a language. I hope you can see that now. I think any average person could learn a foreign language. I don't think it has to be difficult, but most people do make it difficult and they work very hard at it.

Like NuclearGorilla said, my method requires patience and the majority of language learners are in a hurry so I wouldn't bother recommending my method to them. My method requires the learner to understand how it works, to accept that this is the way we learn languages, and to believe that the results will come. If the learner does not understand, cannot accept, and has doubts, then the learner will eventually give up. These are the first reasons I would not recommend my method to everyone.

This thread is not the place to describe the method, so No, we can't describe it a bit.

Let's stay on topic. Cheers!
3 persons have voted this message useful



johntm93
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5123 days ago
587 posts - 746 votes 
2 sounds
Speaks: English*
Studies: German, Spanish

 
 Message 24 of 30
14 July 2010 at 8:27pm | IP Logged 
kidshomestunner wrote:
jplain wrote:
kidshomestunner wrote:
Serena and Venus Williams had atrocious upbringings but can focus on a very hard sport.

Off topic, but upbringing is synonymous with parenting/childrearing. Don't confuse it with hometown and/or family income. The Williams sisters were poor and lived in a crime-ridden city, but they had dedicated and caring parents.


No it isn't.

It isn't just your parents that bring you up... It is the environment...
He never said it wasn't. But the way you described it made it seems as if they had parents who didn't care, when the opposite is true. They grew up in a bad location, but with very caring parents.


1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 30 messages over 4 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.3906 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.