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Why didn’t Korean and Japanese become tonal? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Vlad Trilingual Super Polyglot Senior Member Czechoslovakia foreverastudent.com Joined 6395 days ago 443 posts - 576 votes  2 sounds Speaks: Czech*, Slovak*, Hungarian*, Mandarin, EnglishC2, GermanC2, ItalianC1, Spanish, Russian, Polish, Serbian, French Studies: Persian, Taiwanese, Romanian, Portuguese | Message 33 of 38 25 January 2011 at 6:19am | IP Logged | ||
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Leurre,
I'm not sure here, but it might be that Arekkusu was only being slightly ironic. (but really, only slightly) . Edited by Vlad on 25 January 2011 at 6:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Leurre Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5236 days ago 219 posts - 372 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Korean, Haitian Creole, SpanishC2 Studies: Japanese | Message 34 of 38 25 January 2011 at 6:49am | IP Logged | ||
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Really, Vlad?
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5192 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 35 of 38 25 January 2011 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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Leurre, you made an unbelievable claim about Middle Japanese having tones, presented no proof and then
suggested we shouldn't forget about this obvious fact. If you are right, it changes everything in this discussion. I suppose the confusion comes from the fact that some research uses the term tone to refer to the 2 way pitch system that still exists today. The OP used the word tone to refer to contour tone as is found in Modern Mandarin. If indeed Middle Japanese had contour tones, please provide some proof. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Leurre Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5236 days ago 219 posts - 372 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Korean, Haitian Creole, SpanishC2 Studies: Japanese | Message 36 of 38 25 January 2011 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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I invite you to do your own searching.
The information I got was from a book about to be published by that professor I mentioned. Like I said I'm not super interested in middle Japanese, maybe I'm wrong. Middle (or I guess Old?) Korean certainly did have tones though what I've searched. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5192 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 37 of 38 25 January 2011 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||
How about you do your own searching? Next time you're not sure about something, don't word it as if it were a certainty. Or don't say it at all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Qinshi Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5564 days ago 115 posts - 183 votes Speaks: Vietnamese*, English Studies: French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 38 of 38 31 March 2011 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | ||
Actually, a more logical and detailed explanation can be found if you read Haudricourt's (1954) explanation of his theory as to why Vietnamese went from toneless to having 6 tones by the 10th century CE. In brief, the development of tones in Vietnamese was probably due to the losses of certain initials and finals such as sl- /kl-/ml-/hl- and -h/-s/-x etc... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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