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Languages changing your native language | ||
Tags: Language Interference | Native Language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Tyr Senior Member Sweden Joined 5572 days ago 316 posts - 384 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Swedish | Message 1 of 20 01 November 2010 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Has anyone else ever experienced languages they're learning influencing their use of their native language?
For me I do believe Swedish has done this rather a lot. Firstly- I suppose I've become more gramatically correct and started talking of 'one' being able to do things rather than 'you' being able to do things. Secondly- My word order is a bit more archaic. 'Should I happen upon' rather than 'If I should find'. That's the only example I can really think of right now but I'm sure there's more examples of that... and more examples of other stuff beyond! Anyone? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| sydneycarton Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5298 days ago 23 posts - 46 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 2 of 20 01 November 2010 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes. I'm using constructions that I would have never used in English that are the norm in German. All by accident - it's not like I'm consciously trying to alter the way I speak English. A few weeks ago I got the whole syntax wrong in a simple English sentence - I put the verb at the end of a subordinate clause. I'm also finding that when I'm speaking English, the word that I'm looking for comes to me sometimes in German before it does in English. Really bizarre.
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| SamD Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6449 days ago 823 posts - 987 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 3 of 20 02 November 2010 at 12:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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In high school, I found myself able to find the French word for "scaffolding" but not the English word.
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6946 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 4 of 20 02 November 2010 at 12:32am | IP Logged | |||||
Sure have... 1) Because of the influence from German, I maintain the subjunctive in English (i.e. "If I was..." sounds incorrect to me and I cringe inwardly when hearing it from other native-speakers. Since we say: "Wenn ich wäre..." I get enough reinforcement to say "If I were...") 2) Because of my exposure to all of the foreign languages that I've encountered, I will use conjunctions or relative pronouns whose use in English is often optional. For example, I find it to be odd to say something such as "I think she wanted to tell me I'm crazy." Instead I would use: "I think THAT she wanted to tell me THAT I'm crazy." on the model of several foreign languages. E.g. German: "Ich denke, daß sie mir sagen wollte, daß ich verrückt bin." Hungarian: "Azt gondolom, hogy akarta nekem megmondani, hogy bolond vagyok." Polish: "Myślę, że chciała mi powiedzieć, że jestem szalony." English is the odd man out with only optional use of "that" for the subordinate clause. Every other language that I've learned requires a conjunction here corresponding to "that" in order to introduce the subordinate clause. In the same way... "The man whom we met is wise." instead of "The man we met is wise." Czech: "Muž, kterého jsme potkali, je moudrý." Estonian: "Mees, keda me kohtasime on tark." Again, the relative pronoun is optional in English but is required in all of the other languages that I'm familiar with, and so I usually carry over the pattern into English. 3) On a related note, my knowledge of Hungarian has also sharpened my use of "who" as a relative pronoun when referring to people. I reserve "that" and "which" for antecedents that are not identifiable with a definitively or unambiguously personal antecedent. For example, I find it odd to say or even wrong to say: "She's the friend that lives in Europe." I would use "She's the friend WHO lives in Europe. In addition, most of "my" foreign languages regularly decline personal pronouns. This means that I still distinguish between "who" and "whom" as applicable. It may sound slightly odd to some native-speakers but I consistently use something such as "Whom did you ask?" or "To whom did we talk?" (or "Whom did we talk to?") By analogy to certain languages I tend to avoid merging "who" and "whom" in English. E.g. Finnish: - Kuka sä oot? = "Who're you?" - Kenelle soitat? = "Whom are you calling?" / "Whom will you call?" Saying something such as "Who are you calling?" or like from the song from "Ghostbusters": "Who you gonna call?" seems wrong to me and the influence from foreign languages helps me avoid the common merging of "who" and "whom". Hungarian: - Ki az? = "Who's that?" - Az a lány, akivel tegnap beszéltem. = "That's the girl with whom I spoke yesterday." / "That's the girl whom I spoke with yesterday." I would correct myself if I were to say: "That's the girl who I spoke with yesterday." 4) I have no reservations about using "I" to begin a sentence in conjunction with other people. For example it is considered "normal" or most frequent for native-speakers of English-speakers to say "My friend and I worked something out." However I sometimes say "I and my friend worked something out." In other languages, it's quite common (and "grammatically correct") to begin the sentence with "I". Even in an English caption for photos, I will use for example "I, [insert friend's name here] and [insert another friend's name here]." rather than "[friend 1], [friend 2] and I". Edited by Chung on 02 November 2010 at 5:22am 12 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6699 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 5 of 20 02 November 2010 at 12:49am | IP Logged | |||||
Are you thinking of the indefinite pronoun 'man' here?
Are you saying that 'should I happen upon' is in some way influenced by Swedish? And if so, how? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 5932 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 6 of 20 02 November 2010 at 1:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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I have felt the effects of several language on my native one:
From SPANISH and GREEK: Because of a mixture of language exposure when I was young, I still retain a hint of a strange accent in English which is apparently quite noticeable for some people. I've also been pointed out as having used peculiar constructions in English that are Greek- or Spanish-esque. It's quite annoying when people don't understand what I mean when I say "Close [turn off] the lights" or when some phrasing in my essay is underlined with a question mark, even though it seems like a perfectly normal thing to say for me. From FRENCH: After learning French my spelling in English has gotten worse because many cognate words are so similar in their spelling, and my brain simply seems to favor the more logical French orthography over the English one. From GERMAN: I drilled myself so much on the word order of German when I was still learning it that it now seems much more natural to use its word order to say things. I've noticed this effect not only on my English, but also on my Esperanto when I was learning that. GENERAL/MISCELLANEOUS: I agree with most of the points that Chung mentioned, with the exception of the inclusion of relative pronouns for clarification, although I think I tend to include those more often than some other native English speakers. Another thing is that I always feel like there is something missing when writing in English--I always feel like I'm supposed to make agreements with adjectives, decline nouns and articles, conjugate verbs, and so on... Maybe I should just give up and start over with my English (intermediate level!) and declare Spanish and Greek as my native languages? Edited by ellasevia on 02 November 2010 at 1:06am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hanekawa Diglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4962 days ago 30 posts - 36 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 7 of 20 02 November 2010 at 3:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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A lot of times I say a japanese "R" or pronounce words like a japanese person would.
hahaha it's embarrassing. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Old Chemist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4963 days ago 227 posts - 285 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 8 of 20 02 November 2010 at 9:41am | IP Logged | |||||
Can only comment on the more mundane languages, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been through a phase of using "that" much more frequently than we normally do in English. I did to such an extent people used to look oddly at me. I notice, thanks to our grammarians, English tends to be at odds with most related languages. A good example is the forbidden double negative, such as "I don't have no bread," which would be considered inferior, sub-standard BE, although it is normal in most of the languages I am aware of. I agree languages tend to make my usage of words more careful, perhaps verging on the pedantic, compared to other speakers, although I think I have always had a tendency towards this and it's part of being a "word nerd" 1 person has voted this message useful |
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