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The dreaded rolled r | ||
Tags: Multilingual | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| argentum Bilingual Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5011 days ago 15 posts - 22 votes Speaks: Russian*, Ukrainian*, English Studies: Italian | Message 25 of 36 23 November 2010 at 1:48am | IP Logged | ||
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It's not a big deal to learn how to roll an 'R'. One can probably do it in 1-7 days. What's really challenging is to learn
the proper usage, i.e. being able to use it in your target language without overstressing, especially in the middle of the words. This might take a while. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| CheeseInsider Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4932 days ago 193 posts - 238 votes  Speaks: English*, Mandarin* Studies: French, German | Message 26 of 36 26 November 2010 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just whisper the words that have the rolled r in them, then nobody will hear :P
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| Cjones Newbie United States Joined 4917 days ago 3 posts - 6 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 27 of 36 01 December 2010 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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I had the darnedest time trying to preform a Spanish rolled r. I didn't know how to do it, where to put my tongue, etc. Here's how I learned--
Touch the top of your mouth with you tongue. It should be that part a cm. or two behind the back of your teeth and right before the roof of your mouth jumps up. When you are rolling your Rs you tongue should be right under this point in your mouth (the alveolar ridge) but *not* touching it. Once you have found that point in your mouth, with the tip of you tongue start saying "Da-la-da-la-da-la" repeatedly (fast). The tip should be bouncing off the ridge. This is just an exercise. Do this for a few minutes. Now try to do the Dracula R. You know how the Count says his own name? He pronounces a hard D and simultaneously does a European R sound. Say "Dra, dra, dra, fra fra fra" by flicking your Rs for a few minutes. Now make that very gutteral R sound the French and some Germans do. If you are struggling to roll your Rs, this sound will help your tongue get moving. Now, the way I was able to get my tongue to make the alveolar trill was to simply repeat the name "Fernando Torres" over and over again as I feel the "Ferr" and "Torr" are the easiest trills. The first thing to do is to pronounce the F. After that your tongue should already be in the trill position under your alveolar ridge. Remember, don't touch it! Now the thing the got my tongue to trill was to make a very slight gutteral R sound that in affect blew air over my tongue and made it vibrate. As you blow out make the "urrrrr" sound in "Fernando" but KEEP YOUR TONGUE FORWARD. It takes a lot of practice but eventually your tongue will get the hang of it and you'll be able to roll them off left and right. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ubik Senior Member United States ubykh.wordpress.com/ Joined 5126 days ago 147 posts - 176 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Latin, Arabic (Egyptian), German, Spanish | Message 28 of 36 04 December 2010 at 1:04am | IP Logged | ||
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I think it comes down to the same concept as in right-handedness vs. left-handedness. For
me, my tongue tip is *not* right in the middle but more to the right and more of the tongue itself touches the top of my mouth. Experiment with not just the middle, but favoring each side to see which one works for you better. I know that I cannot make a rolled R favoring the left side, only the right. Give that a shot and let me know if it works for you. Pronunciation is THE most important thing for me. Any time I research a language, I have to get all the pronunciation correct or at least as close as I possibly can. I still cant do 'ayn' and 'ghayn' in Arabic and the "nch" in German still gives me problems, but I continue to work on them (i.e. continually pronouncing 'manchmal' and'München') until my head is spinning LOL. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6360 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 29 of 36 04 December 2010 at 1:11am | IP Logged | ||
Eh Bwana :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| marmite Triglot Newbie Portugal Joined 5023 days ago 35 posts - 57 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, French | Message 30 of 36 06 December 2010 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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A lot of foreign people who try speaking Portuguese without the correct r's are often easy to understand, but in some cases it can be hard. I don't see a lot of native speakers giving a tourist the flak for using the English "r", especially if they could do most other sounds correctly, but it wouldn't sound right. In this I agree with mrwarper, and I think it also might depend on how correct you want to sound (i.e. not rolling the r's would be fine, but it's not something a native speaker would usually do).
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| BobbyE Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5057 days ago 226 posts - 331 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 31 of 36 07 December 2010 at 4:49am | IP Logged | ||
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In the last week I rolled my R's correctly for the first time in my life. It's taken me about 3 to 4 months of practicing while driving and working. I started with the vision dream exercise. After I could get my tongue to kind of slap around, I tried getting it into the Spanish word "Carro". This was basically a failed attempt for a month. I could get my tongue to vibrate and trill, but I was basically yelling and hawking up mucus the whole time, also there was a pause before the trill. I recorded my native co-worker saying that word Carro, and I tried my best to make the same sound. Just this weekend, I did it successfully and I can still do it most of the time.
The key is do the vision dream exercise (found here), in my opinion. For me, this exercise did not actually teach me how to roll my R's, but it DID loosen up and exercise the physical muscle of the tongue, and thus allowing me to figure out how to roll my R. It released the physical limitation so that all I needed to do was figure out the finesse of the sound. My other co-worker said it needs to be "suave". And I had thought I was never going to be able to do it (seriously, I gave up a few weeks ago and just decided out of the blue to try it out this weekend for fun)... lol Edited by BobbyE on 07 December 2010 at 4:52am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| justberta Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5395 days ago 140 posts - 170 votes Speaks: English, Norwegian* Studies: Indonesian, German, Spanish, Russian | Message 32 of 36 10 December 2010 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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If a native speaker of Norwegian, Spanish, German, Indonesian or Russian cannot roll
the R's I will still understand them. However when a Brit or American goes to these countries with their so called fluency and starts speaking... I tent to laugh and imitate them. It's also funny when Germans and Norwegians from Bergen can only do their own special strange Rs and not the regular rolled ones. I even roll my Rs in these countries while speaking English, just to be understood better by locals with a low level of English. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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