|
 |
Negativity | ||
Tags: Polyglot bashing | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5133 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes  Speaks: Spanish* | Message 33 of 60 25 November 2010 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I'm not entangling myself further in this subject, but only wanted to clear up for those who did not read the thread in question that I did not state that Esperanto sounded like armpit noises. I suggested that if you manage to communicate through the latter, then it would have to be regarded as a language in a linguistic sense, much like Esperanto, or for that matter French or Spanish. The point being that meeting a linguistic criterion for "being a language" doesn't put them all in the same qualitative category.
Now about this: "I started this thread because it is my opinion that we should never voice it if we think that a language that another member is learning is a waste of time" Should we then get rid of threads of the sort of should I learn language X or Y? ? Or is Z language worth learning for me? ? 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6258 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 34 of 60 25 November 2010 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | ||
If someone is debating between learning French or Spanish, would you truly say that French is a waste of time? Even if the decision is between Swahili and Xhosa you're more likely to argue that one has more speakers than the other, or more literature, or whatever seems relevant to the person asking. If someone is even considering learning a language we can safely assume that it wouldn't be a waste of time for them, because they must be attracted to the language and see a way to benefit personally or professionally from learning it. What we do is quantify that, i. e. if someone is learning Korean primarily to read Korean manga, we can say how many manga are actually produced in Korea every year, and that would help the person decide whether it's good enough for them. I try to keep out of this kind of thread anyway because often it's someone whose heart says one thing and whose parents / teachers / business sense says another and neither way will make them perfectly happy. Edited by Sprachprofi on 25 November 2010 at 8:04pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Luai_lashire Diglot Senior Member United States luai-lashire.deviant Joined 5616 days ago 384 posts - 560 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Japanese, French | Message 35 of 60 25 November 2010 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | ||
|
Juan, those threads are usually posted by people who are struggling with the pros and cons of a particular
language choice, such as "I prefer korean but it would be easier to learn chinese because I'm surrounded by native chinese speakers, what should I do?" and therefore they are quite useful... as long as people are civil and don't say, for example, "chinese is a waste of time, learn korean". Saying to this person, "go with what you want to learn, even if it is harder" or "I think you should go with chinese because you may not have this great opportunity later" are both valid, but going off topic to discuss why you personally don't think anyone should learn chinese is not. That is what Sprachprofi is getting at. It's not about not having opinions, it's about being respectful of other people's opinions, and when you have a personal vendetta against a language, you should keep that to yourself. And by the way, I would argue that your using armpit noises as part of your metaphor inherently implies a link between them and esperanto and is, indeed, offensive.... and trying to say esperanto is qualitatively worse than French or Spanish is also an opinion of the sort better kept to oneself. "Quality" in this sense is not quantifiable and is completely based on one's own opinion. For example, I could argue that French is lower quality than esperanto because it is not as highly agglutinative, which of course is a ridiculous assertion. Any assertion of quality can only be as ridiculous as my example, because they are all equally subjective. And that is EXACTLY what this thread is trying to address. You cannot argue that one language is better than or worse than another, it is only going to make everyone angry. 10 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5133 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 36 of 60 25 November 2010 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | ||
You're incurring in a logical fallacy there. If quality does not attach to languages, how can a qualitative comparison be offensive? You're taking as a premise that which you're so emphatically denying. If no language is qualitatively distinct to any other, why is a qualitative comparison between an hypothetical armpit language and your own constructed one offensive? If comparing an armpit language to Esperanto is offensive, then why is it not comparing Esperanto to a natural language? Either languages are subject to comparison or they're not. By being offended at the comparison of armpit communication and Esperanto you're conceding my point, that not all forms of communication entail the same. At the very least, we're dealing with two distinct categories, constructed languages and natural ones. Are we barred then from considering their differences? What about classical or "dead" languages and current ones? Should someone who believes Latin or Sanskrit are "useless" keep to himself because he might "offend" me? Do we ban threads where people maintain that Spanish is an "easy" language? Can't we compare the relative appeal of Russian and Urdu literatures? The list goes on and on. The discussion concerning Esperanto was carried on at this level, with no one yelling that Esperanto is stupid or garbage or anything of the sort, so if we ban it, we should also ban everything else, close the forum down, and be done with it. Not that after this many will bother engaging in discussion concerning the topic either, so you can be at ease. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5122 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 37 of 60 25 November 2010 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | ||
|
I suppose it is much like the difference between teasing and bullying. One kid telling you you look stupid one day is teasing, twenty kids telling you you look stupid every day for a month is bullying.
I love Spanish. If somebody said they hated Spanish, I couldn't care less. If someone said it ten times I would be a bit annoyed. If I heard negative things about it almost every day for an extended period of time I would probably get pretty mad. Particularly here where I should not have to expect it. We are all here because of our love for languages. Let us focus on the encouraging part and ease up on the "I think your language is stupid" part. 11 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 6803 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 38 of 60 26 November 2010 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||
|
I wish I hadn't started that stupid "20 Languages" thread! People got the wrong end of the stick and didn't understand the point I meant to get across (probably because I didn't explain myself very well).
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5122 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 39 of 60 26 November 2010 at 12:13am | IP Logged | ||
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the thread. If you give someone a kitchen knife to cut an orange with,and they stab someone to death with it, it is still not your fault. The idea made a lot of sense,and I had grest fun with it,as did, I believe, the majority of the people who contributed. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5123 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 40 of 60 26 November 2010 at 12:45am | IP Logged | ||
Exactly, and this is why reading over and over again that Dutch and German are ugly gets on my nerves sometimes, especially when the writer seems to think they are expressing a unique opinion. And patuco, I agree that it's not your fault that the thread derailed. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
