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James29’s Spanish Log | ||
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| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5184 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 465 of 668 16 July 2014 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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Regarding doing business in Spanish. Iguanamon is right that it can really put the customer at ease. It just makes it easier for them. My customers are often emotional and uneducated which makes things hard for me, but it makes them appreciate speaking Spanish even more.
The biggest factor in doing business is going to sound kind of silly and obvious, but it is huge. I found that my Spanish does not really need to be perfect or even that good, but if it is better than the customer's English it pays huge dividends and they really, really appreciate it. I sometimes talk to people and have to tell them a dozen times to repeat something or that I don't understand and it is really not a problem because they cannot speak English and the fact that I am able to help them in Spanish is so huge to them. Frankly, I find it quite rewarding. So far, I cannot say my Spanish has really helped my business too much (especially considering how much time and effort I have put into it), but I really like it and I see great potential for it. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4574 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 466 of 668 16 July 2014 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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The only thing I mean by speed is that I have always graduated toward courses that give
you more or less unlimited time to answer questions. I may have had trouble with FSI, because I never really did Pimsleur or any other course that makes you answer in a limited time. I know a lot of Spanish now, but I only produce at slow speed. My lack of speed may be because I'm 61, but I don't want to admit that. Whatever my age, I'm sure I can get better. I have worked most of the way through the sentences from Michel Thomas and Assimil Spanish with Ease using anki, both in the active and passive directions. I have most of Using Spanish in anki form, and I intend to roll through that in sequence. So, I'm a couple of months from having a very solid knowledge of Assimil and Michel Thomas. I like anki, in that I can do it in "spare time" during the day. This still leaves me my regular study time. I've recently been doing the "Super Challenge" trying to do a lot of reading and listening, but I've grown disillusioned with the whole "challenge" process with its rules and limitations. I'm going to lay off that for a bit and just concentrate on what I think is most useful. I guess I am used to setting my own goals. My Spanish level sounds like what you said yours was after a second trip through Assimil. I can say a lot of things, but I'm way too slow and make too many simple mistakes. Sorry to talk a lot about me on your thread. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5184 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 467 of 668 16 July 2014 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Do FSI. It is exactly what you need. You can probably do each lesson two times each and move through it pretty quickly. You will be amazed.
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| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5674 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 468 of 668 16 July 2014 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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James, i did Platiquemos at a beginner (A1) level, and it took me probably to an upper B1 level. Though i had to do each unit about 6 times, not 3.
sfuqua, i'm not sure how you did FSI, but if you are like me (and i was 19 when i did Platiquemos), the first 3-4 runthroughs it was impossible for me to answer within the space. Around the 4th or 5th runthrough i somehow always seemed to get a magical breakthrough where it started to seem possible to answer everything on time, and the last repeat i could answer nearly everything in the pause. I can't remember exactly what i did, but i think for the first 2 or 3 repetitions i would pause it when i needed and after that i stopped using the pause button. FSI is probably exactly what you need, it'll get you thinking in Spanish and speaking without needing to translate or think about conjugations. Ah, and i also have trouble with using "usted". Not because the forms give me any trouble, i just feel so awkward using them. And the difference between lo/la/le can generally be described as a difference between direct (lo/la) and indirect (le) objects. Lo hablo = I speak it (Spanish, English, etc.) Le hablo = I speak to you/him/her ¿La puedo ayudar? = May I help you (ma'am)? No lo he dicho nunca = I've never said that No le he dicho que puede quedarse = I didn't tell you that you could stay ¿Le puedo ofrecer una copa? = May I offer you a drink? If you can think of any particular situations that are troublesome, let me know and i'll see if i can explain them. You've also got to keep in mind that, especially in Spain, there's a tendency to use "le" instead of "lo" for the direct object ("le he visto esta mañana" en vez de "lo he visto esta mañana", o lo que creo sería más común en las Américas: "Lo vi esta mañana"). (EDIT: I meant to add that you might also find the inverse in some speakers, that is, rather than the leísmo common in Spain you'll hear that they overuse lo/la rather than le, though in my experience this isn't as widespread as the leísmo of Spain). Edited by Crush on 16 July 2014 at 7:15pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5071 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 469 of 668 16 July 2014 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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Steve, absolutely do FSI. Just don't obsess over it to the point of putting everything into anki. If what you've done up to now hasn't worked, you've got to do it differently, or at least approach it a little bit differently, :).
You have a large volume of words and structures. From what I see, you just need to put those words and structures together coherently and fluidly. That's what FSI will do for you. The drills are the thing. When I did the DLI Portuguese basic course, I did the drills until I could answer smoothly in the pauses provided. If that took 3, 4 or 5 times, so be it. I'd then move on and after I finished the next lesson I'd go back over the previous one at least once. Also, jump into that FSI course where you feel it's appropriate. Of course, at the same time, I was exploring Portuguese outside of course-world. This can be divided by 2/3 or 3/4 course and 1/3 or 1/4 non-course. Just make sure native material is short, and comprehensible. Talking to people too, is very important. My pressure to be fluid also came from language exchanges and my skype tutor. Good luck, Steve. We're all rooting for you and will be here for you if you need help. Edited by iguanamon on 16 July 2014 at 9:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 470 of 668 17 July 2014 at 12:14am | IP Logged | ||
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You're doing a great job of convincing me to take up FSI again. I think between the
drilling and the Super Challenge exposure, I should be set to hit upper-intermediate. I don't want to derail your log, but if you or anyone has already converted the FSI materials into convenient chunks that I can load onto my phone (or know of where to get it that way - Platiquemos? Barrons?), that would be really convenient. I had been working on it before on my netbook, which is dying. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Stelle Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Canada tobefluent.com Joined 3953 days ago 949 posts - 1686 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish Studies: Tagalog | Message 471 of 668 17 July 2014 at 12:24am | IP Logged | ||
I downloaded it from here: FSI Basic The first three volumes have each unit divided into 2 (or sometimes 3) large chunks. The last volume has multiple smaller segments per unit. I found the longer segments best for me. I rarely want to repeat a five minute drill immediately. I preferred finishing half of a unit and then repeating it if necessary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5184 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 472 of 668 17 July 2014 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Crush, you are a machine. Six times for each FSI lesson when you were starting?!?!? That's incredible. I agree that if you can do what Crush did you will advance much faster and more efficiently than what I did. I just would not be able to do that.
On the le/lo/la issue. I do think it was Assimil that screwed me up. I just got it hard wired into my brain a certain way. I can fairly easily understand it if I sit down and think it through, but it just does not come out correctly when I speak. With some work I'll get more comfortable with it. Sfuqua, Iguanamon makes some good points. And, remember that what works for me or him won't necessarily work for you. I respect the approaches many people have and have tried incorporating their methods into my learning. I take what works and reject what does not. Interestingly, I sometimes recycle things that I previously rejected and find that they work later on. Sctroyenne, I sent you a private message. I think I can send you the Platiquemos audio. On the Spanish front, I finished the Penguin Short Stories book. I skipped the second to last story because it was written in an extreme slang dialect. I had a hard time reading/understanding the English translation. I am now reading Stories from Puerto Rico. I love it. It is a parallel book and the first four short stories have audio. I read the first four this morning and then listened to the audio. The stories are all well known stories that apparently all Puerto Ricans know. It really feels like I am learning something about history and culture at the same time as I am practicing Spanish. The book is substantially easier than the Penguin book. In the first four stories there were maybe two or three words I did not know. I have a real interest in the Spanish from the islands so this book is great.... too bad it is so short. I'll probably be going to Puerto Rico in a few months and this is getting me motivated. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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