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Russian is past, Chinese is future? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Red Raider Newbie United States Joined 6596 days ago 39 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 81 of 150 03 June 2006 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well, if you want to really get historical, the Greeks supplanted Rome. The Western Roman Empire fell in 476, and the Eastern Roman Empire, especially after Justinian, basically became a Greek Empire.
It already is playing second fiddle, but not due to China. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Red Raider Newbie United States Joined 6596 days ago 39 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 82 of 150 03 June 2006 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
But what does this have to do with Chinese? My statement that Chinese will never be a lingua franca is based on the difficulty for a non-native speaker to learn Chinese. It has nothing to do with the economics of China. There is more to the lingua franca status than economics. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| victor Tetraglot Moderator United States Joined 7108 days ago 1098 posts - 1056 votes  6 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, FrenchC1, Mandarin Studies: Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 83 of 150 03 June 2006 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't think the "easiness" of a language is really the really the reason why it becomes a lingua franca. English became a lingua franca because it is the language of two world powers in the last century. Each of them went around the world and whether intentionally or unintentionally, made it necessary for other people to speak their language, whether for political or economic reasons.
It is also a lingua franca because a mass of them moved to "new" continents. The United States is the number one superpower. Its economic power and political influence is a huge incentive for people to learn English. If we wanted easiness, we would just go for Indonesian. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| hagen Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6750 days ago 171 posts - 179 votes 6 sounds Speaks: German*, English, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 84 of 150 04 June 2006 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
From what I've seen I can't confirm that English is so easy to pick up as a second language. The fact that it is native language for you and closely related language for me shouldn't deceive us into ignoring that "easiness" is a concept very dependent on your point of view. I already mentioned that the features of English you pointed out as "easy" are equally true for Chinese. Many others (with the notable exception of the writing system, which is still slightly easier for English) would compare similarly. - Hagen 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Red Raider Newbie United States Joined 6596 days ago 39 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 85 of 150 07 June 2006 at 9:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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>English became a lingua franca because it is the language >of two world powers in the last century.
What two world powers, besides the U.S.? I don't think the U.K. was a world power in the last century. In the 18th and possibly the early 19th century, yes. Chinese won't become a lingua franca just because they become a world power. Regardless of the capitalist direction China is taking, it is still a communist country. Also, they are not a superpower yet. They are currently just a regional power. The U.S. became a superpower due to American innovations in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Innovations that were allowed to prosper in a communist-free society. English possibly became a lingua franca simply because the international stage needed a second language, and English was indirectly chosen due to the relative ease of the language and America's influence. I'd imagine that English is easier for a non-Asian with a non-Germanic mother tongue than Chinese. China is larger economic powerhouse than Mexico right now. But most of the kids I know in America are learning Spanish, not Chinese. It's because Spanish is WAY easier. Edited by Red Raider on 07 June 2006 at 9:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6733 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 86 of 150 07 June 2006 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
Not a chance this was a factor. I doubt Russian is an easy language for Uzbeks, for example, but they studied and knew it in the Soviet days. Like we will be learning Mandarin if China supplants the West in a major way. I am not at all sure this will happen, and, frankly, until China starts resembling a democracy, I hope it won't. However, if it does, we will all be learning Mandarin, easy or not. Like they are learning English right now, which anyone who's worked with enough people from South-East Asia knows is anything but easy for them. The only possible counterpoint to all this is the hieroglyphic writing system, which significantly raises the asymmetry in the level of difficulty of learning each others languages, and which in (linguistic) evolutionary terms is a step back from an alphabet and will be resisted to a point if they don't switch to an alphabetic writing system at least for some types of publications. But only to a point. Edited by frenkeld on 08 June 2006 at 12:23am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6680 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 87 of 150 08 June 2006 at 1:03am | IP Logged | |||||
I can't really see Chinese adapting to an alphabetic writing system simply because there are too many homophones (or whatever the term is). Characters help differentiate the meaning of words which would otherwise sound the same. Without them, you would not be able to make much sense of the text. Pinyin is useful for people to learn the tones and pronunciations of characters but is highly impractical as a writing system. Edited by lady_skywalker on 08 June 2006 at 1:04am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6733 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 88 of 150 08 June 2006 at 1:14am | IP Logged | |||||
Is Vietnamese very different in this regard? I was not thinking of them giving up on their writing system, but perhaps developing something easier for some targeted purposes of international nature. Say, if Chinese scientific enterprise supplanted the US and Europe in prestige, could they decide on a different writing system to attract foreign publications in their journals? Obviously, this is a very far out speculation. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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