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Iversen

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Fasulye
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 Message 81 of 107
10 March 2009 at 12:11pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Know thyself, as the text ran (in Ancient Greek) at the entrance to Delphi


Nice reference to classical languages! I know my own abilities well, which is really important, especially for study purposes.

Fasulye-Babylonia


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dlb
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 Message 82 of 107
10 March 2009 at 1:33pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
I think that both traditional analytical methods and communicative methods should be used, but I'm fairly critical about most things I see and hear about both. For me the point is that analytical methods are taught in a very confused and very passive way in the text books I have seen. The obvious solution is not to say "learn this page" or "make your own implicit conclusions", but instead to say that grammar is a way of making knowledge conscious, and by making things conscious you learn them. Therefore you should see your grammars not as God's own words, but as imperfect descriptions of a system that you want to understand. So be active when you study grammar.


Thank you for your response. I think you have exactly hit what I was missing and had never thought of before, an analytical approach for greater understanding of a language is quite different than memorizing facts for facts sake. In eastern learning styles students tend to memorize fact in order to regurgitate the information at a later date which is what I assume also happens in many traditional language classrooms. The idea of memorizing and analyzing information for a greater understanding of the language is lost.

I also imagine that your process of thinking in the language is a key element of converting your understanding of the language to actual communicative abilities. In my early analytical language learning I never tried thinking in the language. It seems obvious, now, and I can see how this would really make a difference.

Thanks again for your insight.

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Fasulye
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 Message 83 of 107
10 March 2009 at 8:53pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
For me communication starts with thinking silently, and I prefer to keep it like that for quite some time. In the beginning I may only think in single words, then in short fragmentary thoughts, which develop into full sentences. It doesn't matter that this stream of thoughts is riddled with errors and structures borrowed from other languages, the important thing is to get this process running smoothly, and then you can start cutting down on the errors. But try to find a teacher that would accept that kind of 'communication' without censoring all the time ... which is my main reason for keeping as far away from teachers as possible during my current language learning craze.


This is a hot topic for me, Iversen! When I concentrate on your Danish hyperliteral translations, I start thinking a bit in Danish, even if I don't speak the language yet. But with Turkish I don't get the thinking process in action. Normally thinking in a foreign language comes naturally for me, but with Turkish it doesn't work. The structure of the language is too different and my vocabulary is still too limited, this must be the challenge. I still haven't solved this and I am now trying to work out a method to force me into such a thinking process. I would like to get onto this level by the end of 2009, so I have still some months left to crack my brain about this.

Fasulye-Babylonia

Edited by Fasulye on 10 March 2009 at 8:57pm

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Iversen
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 Message 84 of 107
13 April 2009 at 10:38am | IP Logged 
My wordlist method, modified to suit people with larger handwriting than mine. I suggest that you always fold the paper once because that will make it more handy to work with - the A5 sheet size would then be approx. 21 x 15 cm.

In the version shown below the column widths would be 9 and 6 cm if you write across the short side of the folded paper, and that should be more than enough for almost everybody. If you have an enormous handwriting you can use the long side, and then you have 12 + 9 cm at your disposal (but in your place I would try to scale down my writing, otherwise you will use too much paper). Personally I prefer 2 wide and two narrow columns across one sheet of paper (6½ + 6½ + 4 +4 cm), each subdivided as shown below.

You do one block of words at a time. Here block 1 is shown as words 1-5 (the number should normally be somewhere between 5 and 7). In your own interest, use different colors for the two languages, because this makes it easier to concentrate on words from just one of the two languages.

First write the target words, and when* you feel sure that you can write all the base language words in the block then do so. If you do have to cheat then take a peek, but write another word before you return to the offending one - writing down a word you have just seen is a waste of time, you need to do the recalling part of the exercise. When you feel confident that you can rewrite all the target words in one go, then cover the left part of the block and write them. After that, proceed to the second block and so forth.

Later, typically next day: copy the base language words one block at a time, make sure that you can write all the corresponding target language words. When you feel confident that you can do so, cover the base language words and write. NB: of course you could cheat and peek at the original wordlist to the left. But the distance should normally be large enough to keep your eyes from wandering, and otherwise you just have to cover the offending part of the paper.

(Day 1) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Day 2)
Target 1   Base 1   Target 1 | Base 1   Target 1
Target 2   Base 2   Target 2 | Base 2   Target 2
Target 3   Base 3   Target 3 | Base 3   Target 3
Target 4   Base 4   Target 4 | Base 4   Target 4
Target 5   Base 5   Target 5 | Base 5   Target 5

Target 6   Base 6   Target 6 | Base 6   Target 6
Target 7   Base 7   Target 7 | Base 7   Target 7


Edited by Iversen on 18 May 2009 at 12:28pm

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tommus
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 Message 85 of 107
13 April 2009 at 2:53pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
and wenn you feel sure

Wenn you feel confident that you can do so


wenn -> when


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Iversen
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Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 86 of 107
17 May 2009 at 9:52pm | IP Logged 
Inspired by this thread I have made a list of links to some of my earlier postings that - without being a complete manual of language learning - gives an overview over most aspects as I see them. The names are those of the threads, not of my posts. I have excluded links that were dependent on knowledge of certain languages, even though some of my own 'favorites' belong to this category.

Linguistics
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=12385&PN=1&TPN=1

13 October 2008 at 9:16pm

Learning Families of languages
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=8264&PN=1

09 December 2007 at 3:48am

Near-extinct languages - Advise?
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=12771&TPN=2

12 November 2008 at 9:30am

Agglutinative to fusional to analytic...
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=9459&PN=0&TPN=1000

10 March 2008 at 12:48am | IP Logged

Iversen (Profile): About the number of languages that a person can learn
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=3435&PN=1&TPN=3

25 February 2007 at 9:43pm

"Rule of seven"
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=4978
January 2007 at 3:57am

About an experiment with learning styles
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=14135

02 March 2009 at 11:27am

Learning Methodology
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=8986&PN=1&TPN=1

03 February 2008 at 9:07pm

How to study?
http://www.how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.a sp?TID=6088&KW=keith&PN=0&TPN=5

17 June 2007 at 5:39pm

Iversen (Profile thread: learning for thinking and other subjects)
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=3435&PN=1&TPN=9

14 November 2008 at 1:06pm

On L-R
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=14387&PN=1&TPN=1

23 March 2009 at 10:03am

Shadowing: yay or nay?
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=11012&PN=1&TPN=4

09 July 2008 at 12:46am

Accent formation video lecture
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=14080&PN=1&TPN=1

26 February 2009 at 7:59pm

Iversen (Profile thread: a hybrid kind of grammar)
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=6743&PN=0&TPN=1000

31 July 2007 at 5:13am
31 July 2007 at 12:17pm

Iversen (profile thread: learning grammar)
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=3435&TPN=9

08 March 2009 at 7:17pm

Iversen (profile thread: about word lists (and grammar))
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=3435&PN=1&TPN=4

09 January 2008 at 4:03pm

Iversen's multiconfused log (revised layout for wordlists)
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=12983&PN=1&TPN=83

12 April 2009 at 9:06pm

WIKIA: Word lists ('Iversen's method')
http://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki/Word_lists


How many words do I have to learn ?
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=14608&PN=1&TPN=6

18 April 2009 at 6:46am

How to count the words you know?
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=8272&PN=6

04 December 2007 at 10:33am

All I need to know is 2500 words
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=251&PN=0&TPN=2

29 August 2006 at 2:12am
18 September 2006 at 4:59pm

Lists of high frequency words
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=7514&PN=7&TPN=2

17 October 2007 at 3:38pm

WIKIA: Interlaced parallel texts
http://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki/Interlaced_parallel_t exts


WIKIA: Hyperliteral translations
http://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperliteral_translat ions


Listening and understanding nothing
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=11744&PN=0&TPN=1000

25 August 2008 at 12:08pm

Understanding a language you don’t speak
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=6927&PN=13

18 August 2007 at 12:23am

Another 6WC? (about how to kickstart a new language)
http://www.how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.a sp?TID=6116&PN=0&TPN=7

09 June 2007 at 3:50am

Intermediate vs. Advanced Fluency
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=4793&PN=26

04 January 2007 at 12:07pm

Passive Fluency
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=6020&PN=0&TPN=3

24 May 2007 at 10:25am

Getting from passive to active
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=12248&PN=1&TPN=1

05 October 2008 at 9:44pm

Foreign language thinking pattern
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=14905

30 April 2009 at 2:17pm

Does fluency involve an "epiphany moment"
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=5326&PN=0&TPN=1

12 March 2007 at 5:43pm

Iversen (profile thread) - about epiphany moments
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=3435&PN=1&TPN=9

30 December 2008 at 3:32am

Ergativity - I’m having trouble with it
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=14476&PN=1&TPN=1

30 March 2009 at 10:06pm

Reading
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=799115

November 2007 at 5 November 2007 at 1:34pm

Latin & today’s Romance languages
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=8373

13 December 2007 at 10:07am

New Google Translation languages
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=14074

25 February 2009 at 11:51am


Edited by Iversen on 14 June 2009 at 11:13pm

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Fasulye
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Winner TAC 2012
Moderator
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fasulyespolyglotblog
Joined 4031 days ago

5445 posts - 6003 votes 
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Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto
Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish
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 Message 87 of 107
18 May 2009 at 5:09am | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
Inspired by this thread I have made a list of links to some of my earlier postings that - without being a complete manual of language learning - gives an overview over most aspects as I see them. The names are those of the threads, not of my posts. I have excluded links that were dependent on knowledge of certain languages, even that some of my own 'favorites' belong to this category.


Iversen, I find this list of your most important posts on language learning methods and grammar very useful, as I am - relatively - new to this forum and I may not have read some of your older posts from the years 2006-2008. Of course I have read (almost) all your current posts you've written since I am a member of this forum.

Fasulye
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Uthnapistim
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 Message 88 of 107
14 June 2009 at 2:35pm | IP Logged 
The link above purporting to lead to the "Rule of Seven" thread has a tiny glitch. Here is a working link: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=4978

I luckily happened upon this link list in my search of the "Iversen's method", which was approvingly referred to in multiple recent postings, albeit unfortunately without a link or an explanation. In my humble opinion a sticky post with the above list of links, whether in part or in whole, would not be at all inappropriate.

Edited by Uthnapistim on 14 June 2009 at 2:47pm



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