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What does "basic fluency" really mean? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6740 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 33 of 106 25 July 2006 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I never do. But if wanted to, I'd do one of two things. If I had been keeping a notebook or flashcards with most of the new words I encounter, I'd simply count the number of entries. Otherwise, I'd go through a few pages of a dictionary and count the percentage of the known headword entries in them. Edited by frenkeld on 25 July 2006 at 5:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Malcolm Triglot Retired Moderator Senior Member Korea, South Joined 7112 days ago 500 posts - 515 votes 5 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Japanese, Latin | Message 34 of 106 25 July 2006 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I will try to make this my last off-topic post in this thread. I'm interested primarily in the practical aspects of language learning, so it's not really worth it for me to expend more time and energy defending theoretical issues which are of no relevance to me or this topic. I think all of us will agree that /hæv/ is the phonemic representation of "have" in at least the General American dialect of English, and that "of" can be represented as /ʌv/. The contracted form of the auxiliary "have" is spelt <'ve> and is pronounce as simply [v] in "I've" [ajv] or [əv] in "should've" ['ʃʊdəv]. Obviously, /æ/,/ʌ/, and /ə/ are different vowels. However, in rapid speech, unstressed syllables are often reduced to a schwa [ə], and this happens with "of" (/ʌv/ --> [əv]). Because of this, ['ʃʊdəv] is often misspelt "should of". However, if the speaker starts saying ['ʃʊdʌv] in more careful speech, then reanalysis has taken place and it is indeed a grammar mistake by modern standards, not just a spelling mistake. I apologize for not taking reanalysis into account earlier. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6900 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 35 of 106 26 July 2006 at 2:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Right, well hopefully this will be the last time I go off-topic in this thread as well.... I am well aware that unstressed vowels often become schwa. I am simply telling you that in my particular "dialect" of English, for those speakers who suffer from this particular affliction "should of" remains "should of" whether it's rapid or not. Andy. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Malcolm Triglot Retired Moderator Senior Member Korea, South Joined 7112 days ago 500 posts - 515 votes 5 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Japanese, Latin | Message 36 of 106 26 July 2006 at 3:04am | IP Logged | ||||||||
In hindsight I think it was arrogant of me to say things like "in all the dialects I'm aware of" which suggest that I have some kind of entensive knowledge and experience. I am a mere student of linguistics, so I'll leave the real debates to the people with Ph.D's. Back to the topic at hand... Since Francois came up with term Basic Fluency, it would be interesting to hear his opinion. One thing I'd like to know is what he meant by "Fully Fluent" in his Spanish success story. Does this correspond to Basic Fluency or Advanced Fluency? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6900 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 37 of 106 26 July 2006 at 3:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't - I have absolutely no idea how many words I know in either French and Spanish (or English for that matter) passively or actively. Nor, I have to say, am I particularly bothered. Passively, of more concern to me is how much of El País I can read without recourse to a dictionary and I find that out by actually reading it not attempting to count how many words I "know". Passively, of more concern to me is understanding what the doctor at the children's hospital is saying to me about the large gash on my son's arm (to cite a recent real-life event). Actively, of more concern is advanced use of the Spanish subjunctive (as an example) than mere items of vocab which I can always look up in a pocket dictionary when stuck. Andy. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 6812 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 38 of 106 26 July 2006 at 5:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Like frenkeld and Andy, I don't count either. The less I use my dictionary when reading, the more I understand when listening and the faster and more easily I can speak/write then I know that the number of words I know is increasing. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Tjerk Bilingual Pentaglot Groupie Belgium Joined 6554 days ago 54 posts - 59 votes Speaks: Dutch*, Flemish*, English, Spanish, French Studies: Swedish | Message 39 of 106 26 July 2006 at 6:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thank you for your responses and they confirm my idea that an amount of words is not a good idea to define basic/advanded fluency.
For myself I used the following criteria : - I teached one semester in an american high school without any problems, that's why I called myself advanced fluent in english - In France and Spain I can read the newspaper, understand a tour guide, have a conversation about different topics, that's why I called myself basic fluent. I don't know if I match your criteria. I don't think that I'm that good in my languages, I'm aware that I make mistakes in all the languages. But I just wonder wouldn't it be better to put practical definitions ? I agree too with Andy E that I prefer to use correctly a subjuntivo then know another 100 verbs extra. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sir Nigel Senior Member United States Joined 6901 days ago 1126 posts - 1102 votes 2 sounds | Message 40 of 106 26 July 2006 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
There was a discussion on this site involving using a dictionary to test your active and passive vocabulary. I can't find the page, but someone else can likely find it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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