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Never had classes but have reached a wall | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4709 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 25 of 77 15 December 2013 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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Sadly, what I'm going to mention is not available for Dutch, but for the benefit of others reading this useful discussion, I'm going to give a positive mention to Duolingo.
Many of us self-learners rely on methods which mainly improve our passive skills: reading, listening, etc. I related very much to what Emk wrote about ignoring gender markers; we don't really need them to understand a text or podcast, so we safely ignore them. Spelling is another one which is probably difficult to get right (unless you are lucky enough to be learning a language with a good phonetic system). I think Duolingo is great for developing some of the skills mentioned in this thread. You have to type sentences, so you gave to get features like gender and spelling right. I've used it for French, and it has helped me to have to really think about spelling. Just now I had to translate "we are rich" and had to remember that all three words have silent endings. The main complaints I have heard about Duolingo is that it is boring, has mistakes, and the idea that it is only good for translation. I think they are working on the first two problems: they seem to be regularly adding to the contents, so when I went back to lesson 1 today there were new words I had not come across before. Mistakes will always happen on any course (as well as in listening to people in real life). But Duolingo staff do respond to and fix reported errors... eventually. If you are a person who thinks translation should not be part of a learning programme, then Duolingo will not be for you. However, if you are happy for it to be a component of a wider programme (which in my preference would still be focused on native content), then it is useful. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4628 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 26 of 77 16 December 2013 at 2:31am | IP Logged | ||
I hesitated, but seeing that it's speaking that you want to improve, you might want to run your eye over this: SSiD Those courses are still works-in-progress (I believe), but you could give it a try. It's all audio and speaking. I know that the same technique works pretty well for Welsh, since I'm doing their Welsh course, and if I was actively learning Dutch (I might go back to it one day), I'd try using their course like a shot). I can't remember exactly how it works for the Dutch one, but I'm pretty sure anyone can just download the first lesson for each of those 2 courses, and if you register (for free), you can download a bit more. For the whole of both courses you may have to sign up for a small monthly fee. But I think you can sample enough for free to judge if it's right for you. I don't have any connection with them except as a happy learner with their Welsh course. Edited by montmorency on 16 December 2013 at 2:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6397 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 27 of 77 16 December 2013 at 4:06am | IP Logged | ||
It doesn't seemingly force production quite as much, but it makes you pay attention to the "little words" like prepositions etc, and if you didn't really hear them, you basically have to produce them yourself. And it's perfect for training the spelling too. Here's a comprehensive description of the site and its features. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4709 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 28 of 77 16 December 2013 at 8:21am | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for the reminder! The fact that it requires typing is one of the things that probably puts some people off using Lyrics Training, but it is very good practice. But what is this "broken record" you speak of? It sounds like some sort of foreign devilry. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6397 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 29 of 77 16 December 2013 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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There's also the karaoke mode where you just follow the lyrics :)
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5230 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 30 of 77 16 December 2013 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think that I can add much to the ton of excellent advice already given. But I think that in this particular case a formal class at a high enough level is probably a good bet. Classes can be a bit of a roll of the dice, and a lot of people like to bash classes, but they can provide structure, discipline and access to a teacher. Add some tutoring and it can work well.
The main reason I suggest formal classes is that although self-learning can work well, it requires incredible discipline. Most of the time self-learners end up floundering at some eternal high beginner or low intermediate level. This so-called wall is actually a plateau or a form of ossification. We can't redo the past, but two years of living in Holland and some good courses would probably have produced much better results. Looking forward, it would seem to me that a good class plus the advice given in this thread is the way to go. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4507 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 31 of 77 16 December 2013 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | ||
iTalki is fairly lacking in Dutch tutors, though. There are two community tutors and 2-3 professional teachers (but their course layout is different). One of the community tutors is me. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5332 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 77 16 December 2013 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | ||
To be fair to self-study, about 98% of the people who take language classes (at least here in the US) also get stuck at about the same place. The only language we teach reliably and successfully above low-intermediate levels is English. The French Meetups in my part of the world are full of people who've spent years in classes, and who still can't carry on a basic conversation. Almost everybody who reaches B2 or up has actually lived in a French-speaking country for an extended period of time. (Or has a serious addiction to French media.) Sure, if you're a Peace Corps volunteer, a Mormon missionary, a soldier with high linguistic aptitude, or a member of the US Foreign Service, you can get access to high-quality intensive classes. If you're willing to spend a lot of money and travel, there are also some high-quality live-in courses in various places. But if you decide, "I'm going to find some local French classes, sign up, and learn French!", the odds are not in your favor. And very few of these classes are prepared to deal with students who have strong comprehension but very weak speaking. 6 persons have voted this message useful |
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