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Should this count as a language?

 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
38 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 3 4
ScottScheule
Diglot
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Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French

 
 Message 33 of 38
26 February 2014 at 3:26pm | IP Logged 
beano wrote:
But that's just it, kids don't learn a little maths in the schooling system, they learn loads, starting from the first day at school. Maths lessons take place practically every day until they leave. The time devoted to languages is much smaller. Ok, maybe the Dutch and the Swedes hammer English into their youngsters non-stop, but most countries give far less priority to languages in comparison to maths.


I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't say that kids are learning a little math in school.
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ScottScheule
Diglot
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United States
scheule.blogspot.com
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645 posts - 1176 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French

 
 Message 34 of 38
26 February 2014 at 3:32pm | IP Logged 
emk wrote:
The obvious exception to this is Spanish.


Not really. Perhaps in a few regions, but it's rare I ever find myself in a situation where I need anything but English in the US. I can't think of one. And I live in an area with a sizeable Hispanic population.
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s_allard
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Canada
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 Message 35 of 38
26 February 2014 at 3:44pm | IP Logged 
emk wrote:
s_allard wrote:
3. Totally unlike Europe and much of the world, North America, and particularly
the US, has very little everyday use for a foreign language. After all, the whole world is learning English. Why
bother learning another language?

The obvious exception to this is Spanish. There are quite a few
regions of the US where
Spanish is spoken heavily
. Parts of Miami are heavily Spanish-dominant, for example, and I once heard a
puzzled anglophone from southern California ask, "But don't most people understand basic Spanish, more or
less?" I often hear people speaking Spanish on the train in Boston, and I very occasionally run into Spanish
speakers with weak English in mid-sized university towns in northern New England.

And this isn't just an "elite" issue. For example, it occasionally York-New-York/Billingual-Discrimination-Spanish/t402929">cau ses friction between Latinos/Latinas and
African Americans in the job market (warning, lots of angry political material behind this link; let's not bring it
here to HTLAL):

Quote:
What Dee stated in her comment is unfortunately true and I have seen it at higher levels than entry level
positions. The tripling of the hispanic population within the coming years will leave the African-American
community with a harder road in being able to obtain employment - even with our degrees.

So there are definitely regions of the US where even B1 Spanish would be a life-long asset, even for people who
don't belong to any sort of "elite." And B1 Spanish is certainly within reach of any diligent high school student,
given the right support from the school, and the presence of Spanish in the larger community.

It is certainly true that in parts of the US, Spanish is important, and there are certainly some Americans who learn
Spanish to interact with members of the Hispanic community. Indeed there are large immigrant communities
throughout North America where foreign languages can be heard. At the same time, I still believe that the
situation very different from Europe and many parts of the world where four or five different official languages, if
not more, are less than a day's drive away by car.
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ScottScheule
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
scheule.blogspot.com
Joined 5023 days ago

645 posts - 1176 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French

 
 Message 36 of 38
26 February 2014 at 4:13pm | IP Logged 
On a tangent, Cormac McCarthy's work uses untranslated Spanish in the same way Tolstoy used French, inserting large blocks into his Russian text, trusting that the reader was bilingual. And there is a sense in which we Americans do know some basic Spanish, with the amount varying, of course, depending on where in the US we live. But s allard's correct that the situation is quite different from Europe.

Edited by ScottScheule on 26 February 2014 at 4:39pm

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Serpent
Octoglot
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Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
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 Message 37 of 38
22 May 2014 at 9:46pm | IP Logged 
Um, sorry for necroposting, but I'm writing a diploma/thesis (roughly MD-equivalent) about markup languages (like HTML*), and among other things I compare them with natural languages and I'm testing a CEFR-like scale for them. If you consider yourself a more or less advanced user of the Internet, I'll be really happy if you can answer here (no facebook account needed, feel free to just email me or PM me here). Answers needed until Sunday/early Monday.
If you answer the optional question, preferably answer in your native language if I speak/study it. (the Scandinavian languages are the major exception)

*BB-code counts too, it is the code we use here on HTLAL, for bold, images, links etc.

Edited by Serpent on 22 May 2014 at 9:56pm

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camus
Newbie
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Studies: English, German

 
 Message 38 of 38
01 June 2014 at 4:57am | IP Logged 
i actually clicked on the link before getting down to read the post. I first perceived the title word 'foreign' as 'not familiar, scary' and thought this article was for computer muggles (if there's a word opposite to geek, let me know). I lol'ed when I saw what it really meant. Nonetheless, it serves as a wonderful example of the difference between human languages and computer languages: such ambiguity will never occur in Java or C++.


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