EU- Mother tongue + 2 (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

EU- Mother tongue + 2
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Language Learning Forum : General discussion

42 messages over 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next >>

iguanamon
Pentaglot
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Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
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Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)

Message 1 of 42

17 March 2014 at 6:20pm | IP Logged

Americans are often impressed by Europeans' language skills. Living in a largely monolingual culture without much exposure to other languages outside of major metropolitan and urban centers, tends to do have that effect on folks. The NYT today has an interesting article about multilingualism and education i the EU- E.U. Fights to Get Everyone Speaking Same Language on Education. I thought this might shed some light on what the linguistic goals are in the EU and how national governments are trying to meet them. Excerpt:

Peter Teffer, NYT wrote:

...In 2002, government leaders of the member states called for “at least two foreign languages to be taught from a very early age,” and in 2005, the Union’s executive body, the European Commission, declared a long-term objective “to increase individual multilingualism until every citizen has practical skills in at least two languages in addition to his or her mother tongue.” ... “Learning a foreign language fosters diversity, social inclusion and intercultural dialogue in Europe and beyond,” Dennis Abbott, the European Commission’s spokesman for education, culture, multilingualism and youth, wrote in an email. “But language learning is more than that. In a globalized world, languages are a crucial asset for mobility and jobs, especially for young people.”

Though the objective has been restated repeatedly over the past decade in various official commission and European Parliament documents, progress toward the multilingual target, often referred to as “mother tongue plus two,” seems to be slowing down.

“Unfortunately, results from recent surveys and studies have been disappointing as far as language skills are concerned,” Mr. Abbott added. A survey in 2011 among 15-year-olds in 14 European countries showed that only 42 percent were at a level termed “independent user,” meaning they knew enough to hold a conversation in one foreign language.

Mr. Abbott noted that, while the European Union was a firm supporter of multilingualism and linguistic diversity, it had “no jurisdiction over the content of education — or over national language policy.” Still, from 2007 to 2013, the commission spent around 50 million euros, or about $70 million, a year on language learning projects, he said....

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Gemuse
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3876 days ago
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Speaks: English
Studies: German

Message 2 of 42

17 March 2014 at 6:51pm | IP Logged

Peter Teffer, NYT wrote:

“Unfortunately, results from recent surveys and studies have been disappointing as far
as language skills are concerned,” Mr. Abbott added. A survey in 2011 among 15-year-olds
in 14 European countries showed that only 42 percent were at a level termed “independent
user,” meaning they knew enough to hold a conversation in one foreign language.

How is almost half of the kids being able to hold a conversation in a foreign language
"disappointing"??
3 persons have voted this message useful

daegga
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Austria
lang-8.com/553301
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Speaks: German*, English^C2, Swedish, Norwegian
Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic

Message 3 of 42

17 March 2014 at 7:14pm | IP Logged

Gemuse wrote:

Peter Teffer, NYT wrote:

“Unfortunately, results from recent surveys and studies have been disappointing as far
as language skills are concerned,” Mr. Abbott added. A survey in 2011 among 15-year-
olds
in 14 European countries showed that only 42 percent were at a level termed
“independent
user,” meaning they knew enough to hold a conversation in one foreign language.

How is almost half of the kids being able to hold a conversation in a foreign language
"disappointing"??

Because a lot of those who can't won't ever be able to hold a conversation. Not
everybody gets further schooling after 15. They just forget what little they've
learned.
1 person has voted this message useful

Chung
Diglot
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20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

Message 4 of 42

17 March 2014 at 7:15pm | IP Logged

Gemuse wrote:

Peter Teffer, NYT wrote:

How is almost half of the kids being able to hold a conversation in a foreign language
"disappointing"??

I suspect that it's because the EU had higher expectations either in the numbers (e.g. more than half) or the quality (e.g. being able to use their foreign languages professionally rather than in making small talk or effecting basic touristic exchanges without a phrasebook).
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Lizzern
Diglot
Senior Member
Norway
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Speaks: Norwegian*, English
Studies: Japanese

Message 5 of 42

17 March 2014 at 7:32pm | IP Logged

I remember reading something related in a Norwegian paper, but I don't remember if it was a political discussion (if so, it hasn't been a very enthusiastic one) or just one or more schools experimenting... Basically some people are saying that you should start introducing another language besides English earlier than most schools currently do (8th grade). We started learning English in 3rd or 4th grade and most of us speak it pretty well and maintain a decent conversational level as adults, so maybe it makes sense to start learning Spanish/German/Chinese/whatever from more or less the same age. There's also a Chinese class somewhere in the country that caters to kids, if I remember correctly they were quite young - kindergarten age - which sounds like an excellent idea to me. English will take care of itself anyway.

Liz
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Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
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Norway
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Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

Message 6 of 42

17 March 2014 at 7:39pm | IP Logged

Well, as far as Norway is concerned you would be hard pressed to find anyone below 40 who could not carry
a conversation in English, but sadly you would find few who are any good in other languages. If you look at
15 year olds 95-98% could probably speak English, but I would estimate that not more than 2-3 % could
speak German, French or Spanish at a conversational level, and those few who could, have learned it from
other sources than school. Sadly we do not start with a second foreign language until the age of 13, and it
takes many years to be able to speak it.

My daughter is in Barcelona on a school trip right now, and the students of her class are bright kids who have
studied Spanish for almost 5 years, but she is the only one who is anywhere close to being able to say that
she speaks Spanish. And the only reason she can, is that she has spent 5 summers in Spain.

How long does it usually take before pupils can speak the language of their choice in other countries?
4 persons have voted this message useful

Falkenstein
Triglot
Newbie
Germany
Joined 3717 days ago
20 posts - 38 votes
Speaks: German*, English^C2, Modern Hebrew
Studies: French, Mandarin

Message 7 of 42

17 March 2014 at 8:20pm | IP Logged

Lizzern wrote:

I remember reading something related in a Norwegian paper, but I don't remember if
it was a political discussion (if so, it hasn't been a very enthusiastic one) or just one or more schools
experimenting... Basically some people are saying that you should start introducing another language
besides English earlier than most schools currently do (8th grade). We started learning English in 3rd or
4th grade and most of us speak it pretty well and maintain a decent conversational level as adults, so
maybe it makes sense to start learning Spanish/German/Chinese/whatever from more or less the same
age. There's also a Chinese class somewhere in the country that caters to kids, if I remember correctly
they were quite young - kindergarten age - which sounds like an excellent idea to me. English will take
care of itself anyway.

Liz

When I was in school we started English in 3th grade and a second foreign language (usually French or
Latin) in 7th grade. Some schools started English in 5th grade and others a second foreign language also
in 5th grade. Nowadays they start with English in first grade and a second language in 5th or 6th grade. I
still don't think these children will be able to hold a conversation in language 2 when they graduate.
English yes, second language No. And I believe it's because English is around outside of school as well,
French/Spanish etc. usually isn't. I know people from other countries (English-speaking countries) where
they had 9 years of language X (not English) in school, the same amount of time many people in non-
English-speaking countries learn English in school, and none of them is able to converse in this
language except the ones who worked on it after school.
The EU needs better teachers and teaching concepts for foreign languages if she wants to achieve her
goal. Stop teaching French like Latin. It's not dead!
1 person has voted this message useful

Gemuse
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3876 days ago
818 posts - 1189 votes

Speaks: English
Studies: German

Message 8 of 42

17 March 2014 at 8:57pm | IP Logged

Chung wrote:

I suspect that it's because the EU had higher expectations either in the numbers (e.g.
more than half) or the quality (e.g. being able to use their foreign languages
professionally rather than in making small talk or effecting basic touristic exchanges
without a phrasebook).

Learning languages is a time consuming endeavor. I m not sure it is worth forcing down
one foreign language (let alone two), and expecting any form of competency. English
excluded.

It seems like some political entities have a vision of a EU being a USA, with people
being like a close knit family, and speaking each others languages; and they are trying
to force this vision by teaching multiple languages.

Solfrid Cristin wrote:

Well, as far as Norway is concerned you would be hard pressed
to find anyone below 40 who could not carry
a conversation in English, but sadly you would find few who are any good in other
languages

Perhaps the two facts are not unrelated. Perhaps the reason Norwegians are good in
English is because they have not expended effort (at the expense of learning English)
at learning Spanish.

1 person has voted this message useful

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