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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6407 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 33 of 141 19 January 2007 at 9:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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That's right what I was asking: when I should use it in which cases. 0_0 I've seen it used with words like ensi, toinen, viimeinen, muutama being in genitive, partitive and illative (not sure about ensi, but I'm sure I've seen the other ones used in all these three cases), and there was no significant difference in the sentences: something just happened for the first/second/last time/happened a few times. The only thing I've understood so far is that with numbers only the partitive is used (although why I've seen "toisen kerran" then? :/ but I haven't seen kolmeen kertaan or kolmannen kerran or anything like that with any other number...) and I've seen tämä only in the weird form tällä kertaa - I hope at least with it there are no different versions possible..although I feel there are some, I just haven't run into them yet...
(Now playing: Naiskala - Viimeisen kerran xD) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6704 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 34 of 141 19 January 2007 at 11:19am | IP Logged | ||||||||
There are quite a few more I'm afraid. As a suggestion why don't you go to www.google.fi and try googling for "tällä kerralla", "tämän kerran", "tältä kerralta", "kolmeen kertaan", "kolmannen kerran", "kolmannelta kerralta" and a few of the other forms. It might be quite interesting for you to compare how each of them are used, keeping in mind of course that not everything found by googling is necessarily good language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6407 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 35 of 141 19 January 2007 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Well the only thing I've noticed so far is that tältä kerralta is mostly used when smth is over or undone, ie with expressions like olla ohi, riittää, jäädä tekemättä, jäädä väliin... (I've searched only for the forms with tämä so far) But are these cases always used in the same way if you use another adjective before kerta? eg should I say
Se riittää ensi kerralta - That's enough for the first time, or should I search for all these adjectives used with kerta? What confuses me most is that what some people tell me is right others tell is wrong...or I just don't see those small differences yet and do indeed use what I was told is correct in the context in which it becomes wrong. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6704 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 36 of 141 20 January 2007 at 9:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Yes, I can see how it can be confusing. These are really small differences in shades of meaning, and as you say, small differences in context can play a big part. Getting the hang of this type of thing is quite advanced level stuff and it takes time.
I probably make mistakes on these too, and I don't think the usage is totally uniform among native speakers either. "Se riittää ensi kerralta" is not right. I'd say "Se riittää ensimmäiseksi kerraksi" for "That's enough for the first time". "Ensi kerta" can be a little tricky. It can mean "the first time" or "next time" depending on context. Sometimes, as is the case in your example above, you need to use "ensimmäinen kerta" to make totally clear that you mean "the first time" or "seuraava" if you mean next. Edited by Hencke on 20 January 2007 at 9:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6407 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 37 of 141 23 January 2007 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Another question about the same christmas song:/ i'm now trying to translate it, but my translation makes no sense :(
Ladosta tulee, hankeen jää harmaana uksen suuhun, vanhaan tapaansa tirkistää kohti taivasta kuuhun with these two lines it's even more strange, I understand all the words and the forms they're used in, but the translation I get is..strange 0_0 Pakkasyö on, ja leiskuen Pohja loimuja viskoo. and is there a typo here? before looking at the text I thought it's yösydänuntaan and this way everything's clear, but if it's yösydän untaan kiskoo, there should be a verb before yösydän. or do I misunderstand something? Kansa kartanon hiljaisen yösydän untaan kiskoo. also, is ongelmataan the same as ongelmaansa? Lol, and this is supposed to be the thread about my progress :D well, I'm currently going through the Langenscheidts textbook, I've done about a half of it so far. It goes from scratch to probably high intermediate level, so I haven't found much new stuff so far. did a lot of excercises and two translations (later on I didn't understand the texts for translation, as the textbook is in German). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6704 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 38 of 141 23 January 2007 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That last line is a little strange for me too. I suppose you know that "pohja" can mean "north" as well as "bottom". I actually can't be sure which one it is in this case. The same line in the Swedish original goes "stjärnorna gnistra och glimma" = "the stars glisten and glow".
I agree, and it should be "yösydänuntaan", as in this online version. That way it also agrees better with the original in Swedish. It looks like quite a good translation of Viktor Rydbergs Christmas poem "Tomten" from 1881.
Not normally, but in this case it is. We just have to put it down to poetic licence as it fits the rhyme there. Normally "ongelmataan" would be as wrong as can be. Again, very advanced stuff this, including ancient language in a very poetic context. I think some native speakers might easily be unsure of a few of the words and turns of phrase used there. I certainly am ("ukseen" !? I had no idea what "uksi" means). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6407 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 39 of 141 24 January 2007 at 7:14am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thanks a lot.
I might get kicked out of school. Because I'm late every day. Because I learn Finnish at night. Well, I've been told there have been much worse cases than me, so hopefully everything will turn out well.. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6407 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 40 of 141 26 January 2007 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What's 21st in Finnish? I thought it's kahdeskymmenesensimmäinen, but read in that German textbook that it's kahdeskymmenesyhdes :/
I think I understood these lines now: vanhaan tapaansa tirkistää kohti taivasta kuuhun is vanhaan tapaansa same as vanhalla tavallansa? still can't get this sentence though:( Ladosta tulee, hankeen jää harmaana uksen suuhun 1 person has voted this message useful |
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