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| FallingStar Groupie Argentina Joined 6340 days ago 82 posts - 85 votes  Speaks: Spanish* Studies: Finnish, English | Message 25 of 33 20 April 2007 at 7:38am | IP Logged | ||
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Ok. I think I got it.
I found this in a website: 'When the accusative object is used with the present tense, the action is in the future. Luen kirjan. I'll read the book. Katson elokuvan. I'll watch the movie. Syön voileivän. I'll have a sandwich. When the partitive object is used with the present tense, the action is in the present. Luen kirjaa. I am reading a book. Katson elokuvaa. I am watching a movie.. Syön voileipäa. I am eating a sandwich.' Is it correct? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 26 of 33 20 April 2007 at 8:18am | IP Logged | ||
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Yes it's correct, but when the partitive object is used it's not necessarily because of the present tense, it's also used with uncountable nouns - juon kahvia can mean both I'll drink some coffee and I'm drinking coffee; in negative sentences the object is always in partitive; some verbs are always used with partitive, eg odottaa. But if none of the above is true about a particular sentence, you can be sure it's present :)
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| FallingStar Groupie Argentina Joined 6340 days ago 82 posts - 85 votes Speaks: Spanish* Studies: Finnish, English | Message 27 of 33 20 April 2007 at 8:34am | IP Logged | ||
And how do you distinguish in which tense the sentence is, then? =( I mean, if someone comes to you and tells you "juon kahvia", how would you translate that phrase? "I'm drinking coffee" or "I'll drink coffee"? Edited by FallingStar on 20 April 2007 at 8:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Aapo Diglot Newbie Finland tarpeet-on.blog Joined 6257 days ago 29 posts - 40 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English Studies: Swedish, Japanese | Message 28 of 33 20 April 2007 at 10:25am | IP Logged | ||
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It depends on the context. For example, if the person is holding a cup, then
it's "I'm drinking coffee". And if he was asked a question to which "I'll drink coffee" is a sane answer, then that's what it is. However, if I overheard that phrase only and had no idea of the context, I would intuitively take it to mean "I drink coffee" or "I'm a coffee drinker". Edited by Aapo on 21 April 2007 at 7:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6682 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 29 of 33 20 April 2007 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Context is the key, yes. Like if someone is asking "would you like coffee or tea?" and you answer "minä otan kahvia" "I (will) take (=have) coffee" it is clear that you mean the future. But if the context is not clear enough you would need to use a time indication.
And note that there is not always an object there to help: "menen elokuviin" - "I (will) go to see a film" is most likely future, because an ongoing action "I am on my way..." would be expressed as "olen menossa". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 30 of 33 23 April 2007 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I hope it's ok to ask here, as this has just been discussed...
in these lines, do only the first and last one denote present actions while the others denote future (except of course en jäänyt)? Ja joka luojan päivä kannan tätä surua Annan sille vallan, ruokin sydänverellä Puren hampaat yhteen ja itken silmät päästäni En jäänyt aivan yksin, on suru lohtunani 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6682 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 31 of 33 23 April 2007 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | ||
Good example ! And the answer is of course no, as I suspect you already know ;o). None of those are future actions as such. But whether they are present actions or not could be a matter of how we choose to define things. They are repetitive habitual actions: "every day I do ...", and as such they happened yesterday, today, and will happen tomorrow too. They are not necessarily happening at the moment of speaking, but the habit of doing them every day is in force, so it is a "present" and ongoing state of affairs in that sense. I don't know how this is explained in the grammar book but I'd see it as a special case where you cannot directly apply the above rules of future vs. present. Edited by Hencke on 23 April 2007 at 4:16pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 32 of 33 24 April 2007 at 8:28am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks a lot. I was a bit confused about these lines, as it sounds really weird if these rules are applied :)
by the way, I remember there was a sentence "Näen meren" in an excercise (the task was to choose the correct case), is this one actually correct? I know that nähdä usually takes the accusative, but doesn't it here imply that the person sees the whole sea, and unless one is looking at the map or travelling in the space :D, I don't think there are many more contexts in which it could be used. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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