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Common errors vs language evolution | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4503 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 9 of 72 13 November 2013 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Кофе should be neuter though since it ends in -e. Otherwise you should have kept the
кофий spelling. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4461 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 10 of 72 13 November 2013 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
With the particular example of "It is me / It is I", I have heard people say "It is I" only when deliberately trying to seem old-fashioned or pompous. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4624 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 11 of 72 13 November 2013 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Is it not the case that what is taught as "standard Italian" was pretty much a "made-
up" language which developed after the advent of broadcasting? (Perhaps with a strong Tuscan influence). i.e. it's not the language that anyone learns in the home, or anyway, I believe this used to be the case. It's possible that it's now taken hold more generally, as communications methods have made everyone so much more "connected" than in previous generations. This is not new, of course. I believe that both English and German owe a lot of their standardisation both to the advent of the printed press and the translation of the bible. I think one or two dialects were dominant in that process, so it can't be said that the result was wholly artificial. In the case of Welsh, according to Gareth King's Modern Welsh Grammar, what became formal literary written Welsh was quite artificial, as it didn't correspond to anyone's version of the spoken language, and the spoken language has continued to evolve and is quite different from literary Welsh (So I gather - I've never read any literary Welsh). In the case of the Russian gender problems, could that be the start of the gradual loss of genders altogether in Russian? Once you have words with more than one gender meaning the same thing, then gender becomes pretty meaningless. English seems to manage without them. Edited by montmorency on 14 November 2013 at 7:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6393 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 12 of 72 13 November 2013 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Nah, it's just that a loan word is becoming completely assimilated, but in this very case there are still too many people who are angry about the acceptance of the change.
2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4640 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 13 of 72 13 November 2013 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
The Russian gender system is very much alive and kicking. Some ambiguity in single words won't change that. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| drygramul Tetraglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4264 days ago 165 posts - 269 votes Speaks: Persian, Italian*, EnglishC2, GermanB2 Studies: French, Polish | Message 14 of 72 13 November 2013 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
Surely it was. More than a century ago. And missing the article is not a regionalism. To reply to the thread's theme I think the term impoverishment here applies, and there are several reasons for that. 1 - as I pointed out in the other thread, is the corruption introduced by foreign common saying. For the example I provided, follow the other link. I am sure I make the same mistakes when I try to convey some expressions or sentences in another language, but there's a huge difference when a native speaker does that. 2 - the Italian education system (both in the public and private funded schools): - different standards of education between different schools - almost universal passing tho higher education during the compulsory phase 3 - Marketing and consumerism. We are accustomed to consume everything, from food to music, movies and anything without any filter. The dumbing down process is a marketing strategy that provides the means to reach every people, and obviously the least common denominator is the ignorant. And language reflects what's happening in any other aspect of our life. We need immediate fulfillment, there's no sophistication in what we hear, eat, or watch, and the same goes for language. Why should we try harder? 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5395 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 15 of 72 13 November 2013 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, if you look at this, you will see, that кофе was always the dominant form. But it became a political issue after the revolution, when the refugee aristocrats insisted on the alternative forms.
In order to become fully assimilated it will be necessary to decline it. As long as it is indeclinable, it it an obvious loan word. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4086 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 16 of 72 13 November 2013 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
"Cheguei em casa", "Cheguei na casa" (specific), or "Cheguei a casa" sounds fine in European Portuguese, and Spanish "Llegué en casa" or "Llegué en la casa" (specific) instead of "Llegué a casa" also "arrivai in casa" or "sono arrivato in casa" in Italian sounds fine too though--or is this a regional difference? Edited by 1e4e6 on 13 November 2013 at 11:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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