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BAnna’s TAC 2014 Spaß-Lobo-IndRussian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5224 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 137 of 236 27 January 2014 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
I don't want to let you down or anything, but I warned there at my log that I expect it to be somewhat dull... I'm sure it'll be nice to have some chats there with you and whoever else drops by, though :)
Regarding your mental processes, just start observing them and they'll probably start becoming ever clearer to you. In general, we don't need ultra-precise scientific theories or stuff to find out how things work exactly, or measure progress in areas we're trying to improve. Developing adequate measuring instruments or systems and techniques takes time and effort too, and that's resources you can't then devote to your... stuff. So, if rough first-order estimations are enough (and many times they are), keep working on whatever you do and actually get better at it instead of going for finer measurements -- that'll only derail or delay you. Kids improve their skills for years because they *want* to improve so they keep paying attention to (and incorporating) feedback, *and* also (primarily?) checking out what others do, to track if they're doing it "right", or understand the underlying mechanics. Motivated adults do that even better. I don't think one usually needs to do much more than that, mutatis mutandis, to assess their own mental activities.
Wow, thank you for the compliment. Languages (even my native one) just get in my way because I tend to get carried away and try to present overly elaborate thoughts. Sometimes I think I could have picked MrFancyPants for a screen name. However...
"In the blink of an eye" is spot on and works wonderfully better, thank you! The problem here is the Spanish words I'd use for "blink" are "parpade-/pestañe- -o/-ar" which are immediately connected to eyes, hence I wouldn't need to further refine the metaphor mentioning them. I see how "blink" doesn't imply that much in English, so point taken. Brits' (or other Americans') comments welcome, though...
That's a matter of practice as well :) One way or another, "physical warm-up exercise" would be redundant in most cases in all languages I know, period. I suspect that was a retypo, though.
It's part of the package :)
To me, that's the UK name for a car brand (I even forgot the Spanish name), so it's apparently not so well known either way, is it? ;) Maybe there wasn't anything more appropriate for that particular item -- otherwise that's the kind of BS that will put me off materials in no time...
Hehe, reminds me of the lady who had noticed all streets in Israel had a common part in their names, so she took the obvious shortcut when writing down some address. Later she took out her notes to ask for directions, only to have some folks crack up at an address like '213, Street, Floor 3, etc.' BTW, it's impressive the effort you put into the last entry you wrote while I had this one sitting as a draft, I'll have a look at it later. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 138 of 236 01 February 2014 at 9:19am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Late night musing about TAC teams and logging in general:
Although the initial flurry of posts has slowed, reading all the log entries from Teams Lobo and Spaß still takes a while because there are so very many people learning Spanish and German. I don't even attempt to read posts of anyone learning Russian. If only there were a few more hours in the day... It can be interesting to read about all the different approaches people are using and of course sharing links and resources is very useful, but I often have no idea what comments to make, so then don't add any. I do wonder what support people want in their learning as part of a team? If they are motoring along doing great, does a comment add anything? All that can be said is Bravo. And if people are struggling, it seems like they just don't post anything at all, perhaps out of embarrassment? If someone is experiencing a rough patch, what's helpful to say? Maybe just "you're not alone"? We mustn't underestimate how frustrating learning another language can be at times. It's definitely not a straight path, but a winding one, sometimes leading to a dead end or into a ditch that we need others to help us out of. And along the lines of MrWarper's comment that his own log might be dull, what is meaningful and/or interesting to post in one's own log, if anything? I keep track of my studies on an excel spreadsheet, which would undoubtedly put anyone else reading it to sleep. Of course, rambling discourse is likely also yawn-inducing. Perhaps a log should truly be a diary or journal, and what lies therein is simply at the discretion of the author, although undoubtedly something like that would be better kept offline. At times I ask myself if it's only worth posting what might be helpful to a potential reader, even if that reader may only be my future self (except I rarely go back and re-read). Would it then just contain links to stuff? Does logging here make sense at all? And if so, can the logging be really honest? Sure, it's gratifying to the ego to post, "I read 999 pages of the world's most Important Book this week or completed x ginormous number of Anki cards/declension table reviews/grammar for masochists exercises", but what if it was a total bore and waste of time or a robotic going through the motions, would someone ever admit it? Or admit that one's primary language study consisting of watching mud wrestling matches narrated in Walpiri? (Nothing against Walpiri btw it's a really interesting language) Perhaps ignoring any thought of a reader is best of all and stream-of-consciousness is the right approach? ...Admittedly, I'm rather conflicted about logging, not the least because I find that reading and writing posts on HTLAL to be an enjoyable but distracting diversion from the actual study of a language, the point of which is to ...that's where each of us has to fill in the blank. But that is a topic undoubtedly best saved for another day. I should probably go to sleep now...and no, I haven't consumed any alcohol :) Just in a pensive mood. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4356 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 139 of 236 01 February 2014 at 10:11am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Logging is truly a diversion, not to mention that I am self conscious when it comes to posting. But then I thought how other people's posts help me out, whatever they write about. Besides, your personal log need not be read by someone who doesn't want to. As for the teams, I believe we have an obligation to post now and then, so it's ok to do so. I personally look forward to the day I will be able to use my languages in my posts, not to mention that logging here helps me stay motivated. Simply all these discussions help me get in the studying mood.
It's communication, it's knowledge, it's the miracle of technology. Because honestly, where would we find so many people willing to argue over when someone speaks a language? :) Of all the things one can be doing in an internet forum, learning languages is by far one of the best! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 140 of 236 01 February 2014 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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I know what you mean about the sheer quantity of posts (especially during the first month of
the TAC). Keeping up with the Team Gumiho (Korean) logs is not difficult, but keeping up on the Team Lobo (Spanish) logs is another matter entirely due to the sheer volume of them (and the fact that the Spanish learners seem far more active at the moment than the Korean learners for some reason). It will die down over the year, though (which is what makes me worry about Team Gumiho since it is already half-comatose compared to Team Lobo right now). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5980 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 141 of 236 01 February 2014 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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I like to use my log to record milestones, roadblocks, and any cool resources I've used. I also use it to vent because nobody in real life really cares about my language learning hobby and although my husband politely listens, he can't really contribute! Even if nobody else is reading, sometimes the simple act of putting my thoughts together in writing can help me start to make sense of things anyway.
As far as commenting on other people's logs go, I try to offer advice where I can, but the extent to which I can comment really depends a lot on my own experience. There is no way I can offer any meaningful advice for somebody struggling with interdediate German beyond the very general, and if another poster has already taken care of that, there's nothing left for me to say at all. At times I do think I could benefit from a bit less HTLAL time and a bit more language time! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 142 of 236 01 February 2014 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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01Feb14
I really, really need to stay off here late at night... This will be another ridiculously long post because I'll provide an end of the month summary in addition to the usual semi-coherent monologue. The crash and burn experience at first in attempting to study three languages at once led me to the alternating schedule I'm currently experimenting with. The rotation is definitely an improvement as far as my sanity is concerned, but of course I probably would make more progress if I studied twice as much... no, no, no, I just won't go there. I also don't want to give up the study of any of the three languages, since I feel like a mother toward her children and simply cannot pick a favorite. Each has its own charms and challenges. My primary goal is to get enough sleep, and if language study suffers because of it, so be it. Sleep-deprivation does not lead to good learning or retention, or log posts that make any sense :) Update for January Short version: I'm following the multi-track approach described elsewhere on HTLAL, figuring out how to study three languages at once is a work in progress. Long version: Thoughts for February: I need to concentrate more on getting Spanish grammar down, so for February I'm going to switch again and do more Spanish and less German this coming month. I'm not sure about using music as a tool to assist the progression of skills, though it could certainly fulfill that role. The enjoyment of music seems enough of an end in itself. I tried Lyrics Training per someone's suggestion (sorry I forget where I saw it), but it seemed too much like a typing test...blah, not for me. German - Deutsch Intermediate Because I really enjoy studying and content in German, the only discipline required is in stopping and going to bed when I'm in the middle of something interesting. The schedule change will help me to not spend too much on German and to instead devote sufficient time to its "siblings". I can change things up again if needed. It was fun listening to lots of different music for the January challenge and resuming skyping with my two long-term tandem partners after the holidays. Sometimes I am aghast at my thoughtless mistakes, but improvement will only come with more practice. "Progress, not perfection" is a good motto to keep in mind. Study focus: subjunctive, pronouns, vocabulary growth, and tricky verbs Team Challenge: Memorize/translate a song (ended up learning a few of them) Difficulty: gave up on pen pals, just not my thing, I don't even write letters in English Texts: "Lehr- Und Übungsbuch der Deutschen Grammatik" pp. 31-48, "Langenscheidt's Grundwortschatz Deutsch Übungsbuch" pp. 66-130, "BerlinerPlatz3-B1" Chapters 33-34, "Practice Makes Perfect Pronouns and Prepositions" (completed Pronouns section, now on to Prepostions) Pleasure reading: Finished "Der Geschmack von Apfelkerne" (meh. lots of garden vocab), and "Kitchen" (easy read, originally in Japanese) and am 80 pages into "Elsa Ungeheuer" (zany story so far), random online articles ("Die Zeit", "Der Spiegel", etc.) Video: "Tatort" on ARD with/without German subtitles, watched "Die Vermessung der Welt" since I read the book in December. The book was much better. "Liebe Spiel" (meh),"Der Kleine Muck" (good kid film), "Sounds of Heimat" (great), various interviews with writers Eugen Ruge, Terezia Mora, etc.. Audio/Speaking: 2 skype conversations per week and listening to podcasts: MDR Figaro-Café, Wissen SWR2, Deutschlandfunk, etc., listened to audiobook of "Apfelkerne" and am in the middle of disc 2 of "Elsa". Websites: Duden, Deutsch Perfekt, German is Easy! Spanish - Español Intermediate I've realized that I need to focus almost exclusively on written skills. In the last month, I have seen for the first time ever how words I have been using for decades are actually written. I have no trouble communicating or understanding people and think directly in Spanish without any sort of mental translation, but it's all at a rather unsophisticated level and I don't pay attention to details so end up making sloppy mistakes that I sort of get away with when speaking fast but not when writing. I must confess, my decision to join the Spanish team was an afterthought in reaction to the Russian team being full, but now I am glad about how things turned out. I really need to focus on what will help me develop a more sophisticated vocabulary and grammar, hence the decision to increase the amount and frequency in February. I recently started a C level course book, but I think a comprehensive grammar overview may be a better use of my time, so I'm going to concentrate on diving into grammar for now. My husband thinks it's great I'm studying Spanish, but he understandably gets bored answering my questions. Study focus: subjunctive, vocabulary growth, regional usage, and avoiding careless errors Team Challenge: Intro done Difficulty: gave up on "Cuentos de Eva Luna" (too boring), short story of Borges (too hard) Texts: "Practice Makes Perfect Subjunctive Up Close" done with first 4 sections, "Dominio C" started Unit One Pleasure Reading: Finished "Don Quijote para Jovenes", on page 300 of "La Breve y Maravillosa Vida de Oscar Wao" (great book, but lots of Anglicisms and slang, which probably would turn the stomach of language purists) Video: 7 episodes of "Filosofía Aquí y Ahora", films "Silencio Roto","1 Franc, 14 Pesetas", "Plan B", and tons of old Mexican films (My husband loves those) TV: news, soccer games, and American football in Spanish. Audio/Speaking: On disc 10 of "Oscar Wao" audiobook, speak to family daily Websites: Spanish Grammar Online (Bowdoin), Ejercicios de Español para Extranjeros Russian - Русский Beginner I'm building up stamina and am pretty comfortable reading Cyrillic now, if still very slow. My vocabulary is extremely rudimentary so upon reading a word, I do not necessarily know its meaning. Practicing cursive is actually rather relaxing after a busy day at work. The book "Russian for Everybody" is really great, but it's out of print and costs megabucks. Luckily I found a library copy. "Face to Face" has grown on me, and I found an inexpensive used but mint condition copy of its workbook. "Read and Write" is really good, too...I enjoy the Russian World videos, but Pimsleur at times is like climbing a steep, winding, cobblestoned street at least until the breakthrough occurs (I think that's the point of Pimsleur actually). I am slowly inching up the incline and although the Pimsleur materials say not to use any other materials, especially written, I'm ignoring that and the materials I'm using are reinforcing each other. A nice discovery was that a branch library near me has a huge selection of Russian books for adults and children :) Another nice discovery was that the Leo app (German translation dictionary into various languages) allows me to look up words in Russian and display its inflection table, and it has a trainer function, sort of like Anki or flashcards. I don't tend to have a great tolerance for Anki or flashcards, but where they do have their place when one is a beginner, and I rather like them at this stage. It seems like there is a fair amount of online Russian resources for German speakers. I may play a bit with those in future. Russian will definitely be a long-term project. Study focus: alphabet and the basics (nouns, pronouns, family members, greetings) Difficulty: Pimsleur can sometimes be a struggle; also, I found it astonishing that the ending of the verb changes based on gender of the person doing the action Texts: "Read and Write Russian Script" finished ch 9., "Face to Face Part One" up to lesson 3, "Russian for Everybody" up to lesson 3. Video: Russian World Series 1 youtube up to lesson 16, Little Pim Eating and Drinking (video for 3-5 year olds), with English subtitles (In the Dark, Killers, Three Songs for Motherland, and a documentary on Russian prisons (all were very interesting), episodes of Sesame Street without subtitles Audio: Pimsleur am currently working on lesson 6 of part 1. No speaking or reading yet outside of instructional materials, but have some some flash-carding (is that a word?) Websites: Russian for Everyone, Russisches Alphabet 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4531 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 143 of 236 01 February 2014 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
I saw the film of the book a few months ago, but found it a bit kitsch. The whole subplot with the electrified Tante didn't really translate well to film. Overall the film put me off reading the book - though that was probably unfair. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| BAnna Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4620 days ago 409 posts - 616 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Russian, Turkish | Message 144 of 236 01 February 2014 at 11:33pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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I wouldn't recommend reading "Der Geschmack von Apfelkerne" unless one had an interest in vocabulary related to plants, although there are some interesting bits. The story is pure soap opera, but not even a very satisfying one. I can only imagine the film as sort of a made-for-TV kind of thing.
Sorry the formatting of my posts has been weird. I was having some internet connectivity issues, so thought I'd write things in word then copy-paste. Didn't quite work out. Just finished Oscar Wao, which I really enjoyed, so off to the library now to pick up a book to read in Spanish, and maybe an audiobook as well. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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