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vonPeterhof
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4770 days ago
715 posts - 1527 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German
Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish
| Message 289 of 297 01 October 2015 at 8:02am | IP Logged |
Serpent wrote:
Actually at the Olympics opening and closing ceremonies they made sure to honour Tchaikovsky and Tatu, to show that Russia doesn't violate LGBT rights. (if only) I'd even argue that Tatu have definitely contributed to popularizing the whole "non-traditional orientation" euphemism. BTW, they represented Russia at Eurovision 2013, and there were very few closeups because they were going to kiss on stage (I don't remember if they did :D) Similarly, Верка Сердючка has invoked homophobic insults. Yet the Conchita win had major anti-Russian sentiments about it. Europe is a strange place...
I hope you now see why politics are generally forbidden on HTLAL ;D I have no doubt that most people here are really awesome, but at least on Twitter I sometimes enjoy the 6WC updates much more than any real political opinions. |
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Yeah, I apologize for that. My mention of the Russian law was more of an offhand reference than thought-out political commentary, as I'm aware that the reality is a lot more nuanced, but I guess anything remotely political could be a can of worms. I'm tempted to go off on a tangent about that Olympic performance, but I guess it's best to just leave it at that.
Serpent wrote:
| As for плавать/купаться, to some extent it's like есть/кушать. The former is more official, and what men should use about themselves, whereas the latter can be seen as more sweet and cozy and only women and children can use these about themselves (I'd say that in the sense "to shower", a man is supposed to say принять душ (or ванну), though that's not that strict). You can (or even should) also use these words about your guests, and in general they're normally fine in the second person. Maybe a bit awkward between two guys (who are not dating each other), although this probably depends on whether their masculinity is strong enough not to be threatened by their word choice :D |
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I've never considered this question much, but your explanation seems to reflect actual usage better than mine. I guess the gendered implications run a bit deeper than I thought. And the first/second person usage distinction is fascinatingly similar to Japanese, where polite language has tons of such pairs of verbs where one is used in relation to one's interlocutor's actions and sounds off when talking about one's own. Кушать in particular has always struck me as a close approximation of Japanese honorific verbs, because of its association with the speech of servants in relation to their masters (the origin of the stock phrase кушать подано). In fact most of my Russian teachers discouraged the use of that word altogether, precisely because of those old hierarchical connotations that, according to them, have no place in a modern egalitarian society.
Edited by vonPeterhof on 01 October 2015 at 8:04am
2 persons have voted this message useful
| Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6595 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 290 of 297 01 October 2015 at 3:40pm | IP Logged |
LOL, I remeber 2003 so well that I typoed it :D
Yeah I didn't say I like the exaggerated tokenism ;/
(feel free to tell me more on twitter - I certainly wasn't referring to your political opinions!)
I actually use жрать more than кушать tbh :D Or especially at a café I may use перекусить, despite meaning a proper meal and not just a snack.
Edited by Serpent on 01 October 2015 at 3:42pm
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| Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5332 days ago
4143 posts - 8864 votes
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian
| Message 291 of 297 03 October 2015 at 8:19am | IP Logged |
And what verb do women use when they take a shower? :-)
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| vonPeterhof
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Russian FederationRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4770 days ago
715 posts - 1527 votes
Speaks: Russian*, EnglishC2, Japanese, German
Studies: Kazakh, Korean, Norwegian, Turkish
| Message 292 of 297 03 October 2015 at 8:08pm | IP Logged |
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
| And what verb do women use when they take a shower? :-) |
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I'm pretty sure that when you're specifying that it's a shower and not a bath you can say принять душ just like a man would, but I'm probably not the best judge of feminine word usage :)
Serpent wrote:
| (feel free to tell me more on twitter - I certainly wasn't referring to your political opinions!) |
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What can I say - I'm good at keeping my more abhorrent opinions to myself, I guess ;) But yeah, I'll tell you more about this later.
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| Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6595 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
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| Message 293 of 297 04 October 2015 at 12:27am | IP Logged |
Yeah, I was just commenting on the fact that it's more common/"normal" for a woman to say купаться about a bath or long shower :) In general these vague distinctions are largely about men avoiding "feminine" usage rather than vice versa. (apart from the words for marry/married, which go both ways, though my mum constantly says жениться regardless of gender :))
2 persons have voted this message useful
| Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6595 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 294 of 297 22 November 2015 at 11:09pm | IP Logged |
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
iguanamon wrote:
There is a reason why Christina is the heart and soul of the forum... and this is it:
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
...And this is precisely why I learn more languages than English. Because I can sit
and have a deep, meaningful conversation with a Tatar woman, in what from a Euro centric position is in the
middle of nowhere, and understand almost everything she says. And once again realise that the female
condition is pretty much the same all over the globe. ... I love Tatarstan. They have the sweetest, most open
and honest people ever. And I say that based on an extremely limited selection, but still :-) ... |
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This is what makes all the study, the long hours, the frustration, the effort worthwhile and why many of us
learn languages in the first place. Thank you Christina. I hope wherever we end up, that we can take you with
us so you will continue to take all of us along with you on your travels. |
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Dear Iguanamon, thank you for those beautiful words, and of course I'll be with you. If I must choose between hanging out at a library with all the best books in the world, but no friends, and a new struggling library where all my friends hang out, I'll go to where all my friends are. People will always be most important to me. But I am hoping to be able to stay at the old library, after a makeover and with all my friends :-) |
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I'm afraid this site is indeed turning into an old library... ;/
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| iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5260 days ago
2241 posts - 6731 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)
| Message 295 of 297 23 November 2015 at 1:32pm | IP Logged |
Cristina, we miss you at our new home. You are needed.
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 5332 days ago
4143 posts - 8864 votes
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian
| Message 296 of 297 23 November 2015 at 1:46pm | IP Logged |
Ehem - Does anyone have a link? I am afraid I have forgotten where the new place is
(blushing slightly)...
1 person has voted this message useful
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