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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 6622 days ago 149 posts - 167 votes  1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 41 of 99 10 October 2006 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I just quoted the views of other Iranians. They weren't mine. And, almost all of them, live abroad (outside Iran). If you google "Persian or Farsi" you'll find many pages.
The Academy of Persian Language do have the right to state its recommendation. Whether being called Farsi or Persian, affects the past, present and future of the language. And this effect reflects to US and OUR language. So, we have the right to talk about it. Farsi is a newly appeared name and it has been called Persian in English since year dot. Ok, I think we've had enough of it. I wanted to put the record straight and I did it. I think everything is clear and those who understand the difference will call it Persian. So, I don't participate in this topic any longer. - Good luck everybody 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| frenkeld Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6943 days ago 2042 posts - 2719 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German | Message 42 of 99 10 October 2006 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Starting with a Google search for "Persian or Farsi", with quotes, I came upon a couple of links:
http://www.iranian.com/Features/Dec97/Persian/ and http://www.iranian.com/Sep96/Articles/FarsiReaction2/FarsiRe action2.html I also got curious if English was the only language with this issue, so I searched for "Farsi" and "Persian language" in cyrillic ("фарси", "персидский язык"). Limiting the search to the ".ru" domain, there were 141,000 hits for "Farsi" and 21,700 for "Persian language". (It must be noted that the number of hits for "Persian language" would´ve been higher had I also searched for that phrase in non-nominative cases.) One page in Russian I came upon prior to restricting the cyrillic search to the .ru domain was at the Iranian news agency of some sort: http://russian.irib.ir/HTML/always/tema%20dnya/kultura/113.h tm The language of the article seems natural, i.e., native or near-native Russian. Both terms are used interchangeably, with "Farsi" occurring many times. I don't know which designation is more common in daily speech in Russia, but it does appear that the use of the word "Farsi" for Persian language is not confined to English. Edited by frenkeld on 10 October 2006 at 5:47pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| That_Guy Diglot Groupie United States Joined 7098 days ago 74 posts - 87 votes Studies: Hindi, English*, Spanish | Message 43 of 99 11 October 2006 at 10:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Actually the English language isn't regulated by any official body. The closest thing to a regulatory body is the Oxford English dictionary which, as someone has already mentioned, recognizes both Farsi and Persian as proper terms for the language. I really don't see what the big deal is. If the word Farsi is being used every day, by every day people (not just "Pseudo-sophisticates" as one person said), what's the problem? Is the term Farsi offensive in anway? If not, I simply can't see why there's any problem. And with all due respect, what authority do you have to tell me (a native English speaker) what I should or should not use? Farsi has entered into the vernacular, and I doubt it's leaving anytime soon. -Ryan 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 7077 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 44 of 99 12 October 2006 at 4:22am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Interesting.
Languages are in a constant state of evolution, and that evolution has taken English to the usage of Farsi for Persian (and vice versa). Since there is no academy that governs the usage of English, the English language incorporates new words (loanwords) at a faster rate than many other languages - think of any handful of words that are in common usage these days (karaoke, kangaroo, vodka, spaghetti... the list is virtually endless). These words and anglicised and become English - [not using phonetics.. sorry] we say "ka-ra-oky" not "ka-roké".. and likewise, I'm sure when an English speaker says "Farsi" it won't sound like it does when spoken by a native speaker of Farsi/Persian. As a side note, I may as well note that since there is no governing body for English, this is a major reason why it is becoming the lingua franca (is that English?) of the world. People find that the language is forgiving and variation is natural. Also, like frenkeld, I did the dictionary test. My dictionary has Farsi and Persian as having the same entries and directing to one another. There are no entries for Français or Deutsch (although Deutschmark is there)... and not even an entry Mandarin (reiterates why "Chinese" is still in common usage as an umbrella term) BTW: I'm a pro-Farsi user, not Persian. English speakers mostly think I'm talking about history when I say "Persian". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 6622 days ago 149 posts - 167 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 45 of 99 12 October 2006 at 5:06am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Don't make me laugh! How it came to Australia, USA, India etc.? British colonization or else? English is not lingua franca for the cheap reasons you mentioned. It has reasons other than beauty and such and such. It's particularly because they took the mainstream of science. For example, where does computer come from? If USA's language was for example Spanish was English the lingua franca now? I don't think so. If you don't know, know that many people are obliged to learn it. otherwise, they remain in the back. So, for many people, it's not the matter of interest but obligation. Edited by Alijsh on 12 October 2006 at 6:30am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 46 of 99 12 October 2006 at 8:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I wouldn't be so quick to needle others and label their opinions as "cheap". You certainly have your opinions, but frankly some of your statements are coming off more as flaming than respectful debate. While it's true that English has become the most widely-spoken language in the world today mainly because of technological development (especially from the USA) and British colonization, you must admit that not having a rigid prescriptivist body makes the language much more flexible and inviting for people whose native language is not the Queen's English. Look at how many regional slang words and loanwords that the English lexicon has. The beauty is that a lot of native speakers don't get their panties in a bunch because of it. Nor does anyone really raise a fuss that English now can be divided into various regional standards. (e.g. British English, Australian English, American English, Indian English etc.). Moreover they're all called "English" in most cases by their respective speakers (e.g. British and Americans will both say that they speak "English". Only linguists or people who really want to emphasize something will insist on saying something like "But I speak American English, but she speaks British English."). In addition most native speakers of any English variant really don't care if I use "Farsi" and another uses "Persian". We ask for clarification if necessary, and then just get on with the job... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 6622 days ago 149 posts - 167 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 47 of 99 12 October 2006 at 9:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Andee said that :this is a major reason why it is becoming the lingua franca (is that English?) of the world. People find that the language is forgiving and variation is natural. Isn't a cheap major reason for the English becomig lingua franca?
Rigid? Who has told that it's rigid? Academy does not impersion language. Persian, French, Spanish and other languages that have Academy are as free, felxible, and inviting as English. Such things as being non-rigid, inviting, flexible etc. don't make a language the lingua franca. Edited by Alijsh on 12 October 2006 at 9:44am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7156 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 48 of 99 12 October 2006 at 9:54am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Then what do you mean by "cheap"? I think that Andee's point isn't as bad as you make it. What's more is that being an Iranian, how did you come to learn English? The last time I checked, the English did not have colonies in Iran as they did in India and North America... One of your comments about your learning of English came off as if you felt it to have been a burden to have learned it as opposed to Spanish... About rigidity: Why did you insist so strongly that we native English speakers were wrong to use "Farsi" over "Persian"? Moreover, you backed up your argument with the authority of an Iranian academy which holds no legal or moral sway over people outside Iran. That seemed quite rigid to me since you gave the rest of us a binary choice of "Persian is right" and "Farsi is wrong" when the truth is that English variants now accept both Farsi and Persian. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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