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| gidler Senior Member Finland Joined 6621 days ago 109 posts - 118 votes  1 sounds Speaks: Finnish* | Message 25 of 141 17 January 2007 at 12:27am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Also, "on tehtävä" is very formal and rarely used in colloquial speech.
I've never heard anyone use the nominative here so it probably is a feature of some local dialect. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 26 of 141 17 January 2007 at 8:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thanks a lot, I guess I would be lost without you :-)
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 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6892 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 27 of 141 17 January 2007 at 9:03am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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OK I see. But what comes after "sinun kannattaa + inf ..." will be more or less an independent phrase that could be anything (except that the verb is in the infinitive). It is hard to say anything definite about the object there, though I can't think of an example where genitive would be possible.
In your example sentence you'd normally want to use nominative: a. "sinun kannattaa lukea tämä kirja" - "it is worth your while to read this book" (read the whole thing through) but partitive is possible too: b. "sinun kannattaa lukea raamattua" - "it is worth your while to read the Bible" (read a little bit now and then, not necessarily all of it) Genitive would not be possible there. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 28 of 141 17 January 2007 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Theoretically I think the genitive could be used here if an expression like antaa+gen+tehdä followed kannattaa...but I can't make an example that would make sense.
Well unlike genitive and nominative, partitive is possible almost everywhere :D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 29 of 141 18 January 2007 at 8:08am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'm confused. in which case is the word kerta usually used? (the first time, this time, the last time etc) One native speaker always corrects me and says I should use it in the partitive, another said it should be in the illative, but mentioned that it's the influence of her dialect - she's from Pori. Now I've been reading the Langenscheidts textbook (in German, and surprisingly I understand more than I expected myself to) and I saw it used in the genitive, toisen kerran, just like I used initially :D
And I need a piece of advice. If I understand correctly, te is rarely used as a polite form when you speak to one person, only in very formal situations, but in Teach Yourself Finnish that I shadow a lot it's used in dialogues very often, for example when speaking to a salesman. So when I'm shadowing these dialogues, should I use te anyway? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6892 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 30 of 141 18 January 2007 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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"Kerta" (time, occasion) is no different from any other noun. It will follow the normal rules and be in the case that corresponds to that particular situation, so it could be any of the 16 cases I suppose: ensi kerran, viime kerralla, toinen kerta, kolmatta kertaa etc. according to the grammatical setting in each case - well, not all 16 perhaps, but many of them: I am hard pressed to imagine a situation where comitative "kertoineen" would apply ;o).
In my time "teitittely" (using the polite "te" form) was common practice with salespeople, in shops, restaurants, buses, with the authorities and basically any situation where you were dealing with people you didn't know personally. It didn't need to be especially formal. But that was thirty years ago and I am out of touch with how this might have developed in the meantime. In any case, I'd shadow those dialogues exactly as they are. It would be too complicated to try deviating and it might mess up your concentration to think about this when you want to be concentrating on getting pronunciation, rhythm and intonation right. And in real life I'd rather use "te" one time too many than too few. If err you must - and you do - better err on the side of caution type of thing. Edited by Hencke on 18 January 2007 at 3:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 31 of 141 18 January 2007 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I meant kerta in sentences which have "for the ... time" in English.
Well in my textbook on puhekieli te is only used to address a group of people :/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6892 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 141 18 January 2007 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That still leaves quite a few possibilities open, depending on what is being said: kerran, kertaa, kerralla, kerraksi and perhaps one or two other ones. It would really need to be a specific sentence to be able to say anything more definite than that. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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