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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| reltuk Groupie United States Joined 6819 days ago 75 posts - 110 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 57 of 191 07 July 2007 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm afraid that the reason no one on these forums is able to answer your specific inquiries into the use of Assimil to learn Japanese is likely because no one on these forums has done it yet. The English-based "Japanese with Ease" course just came out in late March, so it is likely that you're one of the earliest adopters amongst us =). That being the case, at the risk of turning yourself into a guinea pig, you have an exciting opportunity to try the course out and tell us about the effectiveness of it =). If you've never used an Assimil course before, I would suggest starting with Assimil's prescribed usage, and only deviating from that when you identify problem points or things that you think you can make better. The text of the instructions for utilizing the courses vary from course to course, but they all say basically the same thing in my experience. Unless your Japanese with Ease course differs significantly from the standard usage instructions, I would follow them. My understanding of standard usage for the passive phase includes the following points: 1) work with the course at least 30 minutes a day; do not skip days. 2) go through the course at a rate of one lesson per day. 3) every seventh day, read the grammar note summaries for that week's lessons, review the previous seven days' lessons by listening to each dialog at least twice. 4) for a regular day, with a new dialog, do the following: 1) Listen to the dialog attentively two or three times; listen for interesting things in the pronunciation, intonation, rhythm and flow of the dialog; listen for words that you already know the meaning of, and try to identify what unknown expressions might mean. 2) Read the dialog and it's English translation, possibly a couple times, so that you know the meaning of what you're hearing. Listen to the dialog two or three more times, with the book open. When you hear each phrase, think of the meaning for the phrase and read the English translation if you need to. 3) At this point you have a reasonable familiarity with the dialog and it's meaning. Go through the dialog at least twice, pausing the audio after each numbered phrase/sentence. Repeat the phrase you just heard. Try to do it without looking at the book and while thinking of the meaning of the phrase in your head. 4) At this point you have repeated the dialog and listened to it at least 8 times. Read the notes associated with the lesson. Look for all the phrases that exhibit those grammar points in the current lesson. Try to think of phrases from past lessons that exhibit those grammar points. Assimil consistently exposes you to grammar that they don't explain for a number of lessons, in order to give you a chance to pick up on the rule yourself. If this dialog references a note that appears in the weekly summary for this set of dialogs, flip ahead and read that note at this time. Try not to read any of the other grammar notes that appear in the summary, despite how tempting it is =). 5) All of this will have taken somewhere between 15 to 20 minutes. Take the next five minutes to do, either mentally or on a separate piece of paper, the secondary exercises. People on these forums generally don't like the secondary exercises, but Assimil puts them there for a reason and until you determine for yourself that they are useful, I think you should stick with them. 6) For the last 5 or 10 minutes of your study time, listen to the dialog and repeat the phrases (chunked by their numbering) while thinking of the meaning. When you get to the active phase, you will need a couple more minutes a day (up to 15) in order to go back to the previous dialog for that day and translate/practice production. I admit that the above course usage method isn't entirely to be found in any one Assimil book, but it's a combination of descriptions from a number of Assimil books and some of my own anecdotes derived from some passing familiarity with a couple FSI courses. It stays within Assimil's description of how to use the course, while elaborating on a couple details of the process. Above all, try to have fun and stay relaxed. Realize that Assimil designed the course so that you could learn Japanese from it. There are some bad Assimil courses, and they are bad to varying degrees and in various respects, but the majority of Assimil courses are quite good. In general, Assimil courses manage to live up to end of the bargain, which is to provide you with graduated exposure to the language as it is naturally used and spoken. Don't be constantly stressed out about if it's going to work, how to best use it, etc. Especially in your moment of study, when you're actually sitting with the dialogs and the book, it's important to be relaxed and excited about the learning process. As the course progresses, it will be important to evaluate the methodology and your progress. Do not do this while you are studying. Do it at a completely separate time, outside of your studies. Do not be too hasty in your judgments of failure either: Assimil explicitly removes the burden of language production until after your first two and a half months of exposure to the language; they do this for a reason and you agreed to such a constraint when you signed on for the course. While you are in the passive phase of Assimil, you should be judging your progress in the language based on what you have been practicing, namely you're ability to listen to and understand the language. Things you should be asking yourself are: Can I understand the dialogs when I go back and listen to them? Can I hear nuances of pronunciation that I couldn't hear in the beginning? Can I repeat the dialogs after hearing them with reasonable pronunciation and intonation? Am I able to chunk my repetitions by the numbered phrases? If you're meeting success in these regards, then the passive phase is working and this is what you signed up for. This is not to say that you should not attempt to generate the language on your own during the passive phase. If you have access to native speakers, or feel inclined to write in your target language, or simply want to dialog with yourself outside of the Assimil scripts, by all means feel free to. But while you are in the passive phase, do not judge your progress in the course by your ability to do these things effectively. Assimil has given you a course which they claim will allow for these things in time, but that time is during the active phase, and you have intentionally not been practicing these things within the context of the course yet. Above all, keep a language log, so that we can all see how you're using "Japanese with Ease" and what the courses strengths and weaknesses are! I look forward to reading it =). -- reltuk Edited by reltuk on 07 July 2007 at 9:31pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tpiz Diglot Groupie United States cvillepayne.blogspot Joined 6367 days ago 77 posts - 79 votes Studies: Portuguese, English*, French Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 58 of 191 07 July 2007 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks alot, I think I am going to follow that method, I was kind of angry in the beginning because when I got the Assimil order I expected a big textbook with a bunch of CDs, and I see a little white box with a relatively small booklet and 3 CDs, and thought I made a mistake, but now I realize there are 49 lessons in it. And I can also keep up a log of how the course is going, even though I hate to write alot especially since it's the summer, but I can try keeping a log. I will start at Lesson 6, since I just finished Lesson 5, and will keep up with it as often as possible, thx.
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| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6694 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 59 of 191 08 July 2007 at 12:33am | IP Logged | |||||
So do you think Assimil is more demanding than FSI if someone wanted to gain fluency? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cage Diglot aka a.ardaschira, Athena, Michael Thomas Senior Member United States Joined 6627 days ago 382 posts - 393 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 60 of 191 08 July 2007 at 3:02am | IP Logged | |||||
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If you were to commit the FSI course to memory I don't think there would be anything else more demanding. But French and Spanish are the only ones I have experience with in FSI and French is the only Assimil course I am familiar with. FSI Spanish includes 50+ hours of audio and 2000 pages of text.
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| The Law Newbie United States Joined 6378 days ago 31 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English* | Message 61 of 191 08 July 2007 at 11:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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What do you mean by commit the course to memory? Memorize each lesson by heart?
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| aru-aru Triglot Senior Member Latvia Joined 6460 days ago 244 posts - 331 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, Russian | Message 62 of 191 08 July 2007 at 11:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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The Law, i guess what he's trying to say is, if, say, ten people use the same book for same amount of time and learn more or less similar amount of things (that is, learn similar amount of words, phrases, sentence structures) then they will still end up having differnet levels for the language. I guess it's about how thorough is the understanding, how flexible the mind in mixing up the bits and creating new things, how good the guessing skills in listening and reading comprehension. If you would really fully understand and figure out precisely how to use every word and grammar rule the book lists then the level you'd reach would be high.
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| LilleOSC Senior Member United States lille.theoffside.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6694 days ago 545 posts - 546 votes 4 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 63 of 191 11 July 2007 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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| Cage Diglot aka a.ardaschira, Athena, Michael Thomas Senior Member United States Joined 6627 days ago 382 posts - 393 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Portuguese | Message 64 of 191 11 July 2007 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't think that by itself Assimil will get you past maybe high intermediate.
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