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Shadowing: yay or nay? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Tahl Diglot Newbie United States Joined 4291 days ago 26 posts - 44 votes Speaks: English*, Welsh Studies: Spanish, Finnish | Message 57 of 67 15 April 2013 at 2:50am | IP Logged | ||
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I came upon this old thread in trying to solve something that baffles me: if you are
trying to shadow out loud, how on earth do you hear the details of the speaker's speech clearly over the sound of your own voice? I've tried shadowing (without the text in front of me) both with and without headphones, and given up in frustration within five minutes each time. Am I missing a trick? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| berabero89 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4645 days ago 101 posts - 137 votes  Speaks: English, Amharic* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, French | Message 58 of 67 15 April 2013 at 3:03am | IP Logged | ||
When I shadow, I do so for an Assimil lesson around 10 times. Usually, after shadowing 2 or 3 times, I listen to the audio once or twice without shadowing to really hear the details and then continue shadowing until the last time I listen to it (I become silent again at this point). This probably isn't part of the theory behind shadowing but this is what's helped me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4850 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 59 of 67 15 April 2013 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've been researching shadowing for the past few days, and I've had the same trouble with Tahl when trying shadowing.
I've come to the conclusion that the only way that a person can do shadowing is to memorize the material, to know it in and out, to be able to recite it, before attempting to shadow.... or at least you have to have heard it so many times that it has completely become stuck in your head. The only way I can shadow is after I have memorized the piece, line by line, and can recite it without the audio and/or looking at the paper. Then shadowing is just a matter of working on my production. I think shadowing is effective, but the bigger question for me is, is it worth the time investment? Surely shadowing is not the only way to improve upon your speaking and listening skills. Edited by kujichagulia on 15 April 2013 at 3:32pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4553 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 60 of 67 15 April 2013 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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I find it utterly impossible and extremely frustrating and unpleasant to attempt. I can't
even do it in English, and definitely think that any benefit I might get from it (and I'm not convinced that there is any) would not justify the amount of time and misery it would take for me to get the hang of it. I too think that the poll results probably include "yes" votes for a fair number of people that think shadowing = listen + repeat. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4660 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 61 of 67 15 April 2013 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Shadowing of unknown text is possible and is (mostly) a thing of habit.
Interpreters go even one step further - they translate instead of repeating (well, they usually start to shadow the text and stretch their wings further with time...). Ideal conditions for shadowing: - no noise around you ...walk in the park or forest, if you can :) - the audio is louder than your voice ...speak clearly but in a low voice - don't start shadowing radio news broadcasts - start with Assimil, Linguaphone or audiobook ...these all should be slightly slower then natural speech, but not unnaturally slow Few tips if you have problems when starting: - with Assimil, start in the beginning and don't cut the pauses out - shorten them (Audacity can do it for you) or leave them for now. - use the "listen and repeat" method first - for second try, listen to a half of sentence (roughly), start repeating and listen to the rest of sentence - next step: "true" shadowing - start repeating as soon as you can, listening for the rest of sentence. Use the pauses to catch your breath, to rest. And don't overdo it - shadowing shouldn't leave you exhausted. At extreme, half of an hour is maximum you can do under ideal conditions. 15 minutes is better, 5 minutes 3 times a day is the best. Start with easy audio, try it for a week or two for a 5 minutes a day or every other day. You may find that it suddenly "clicks". But don't worry if you cannot do it - the "listen and repeat" method done right is only slightly less intensive. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5384 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 62 of 67 15 April 2013 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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As far as pronunciation is concerned, I prefer to do what I call "Spontaneous Shadowing": instead of learning and repeating a given text, which I find both boring and time-consuming, I prefer to listen to various materials I enjoy and to repeat, spontaneously, any phrase I recognize, effectively mimicking not just the sounds and the intonation, but also the meaning, the intent and the mood it was set it. Eventually, common phrases become second nature and can be uttered in the right context and with the appropriate modulations.
4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4553 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 63 of 67 15 April 2013 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | ||
If you are listening to something you've never heard before, and you repeat a phrase from it, you couldn't repeat the complete phrase unless the speaker had already finished saying it.....which means you are *not shadowing,* you are listening and repeating. Which is great, that's what I do, and I often do it just as you describe (while watching Spanish TV and movies.) I think it's a great technique. But shadowing, which involves *talking over* what you're listening to, as simultaneously as you can manage, is a technique that I fail to see the point of. What is supposed to be gained by talking over instead of simply repeating? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5384 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 64 of 67 15 April 2013 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Shadowing was originally -- and still is -- a technique used by interpreters whereby one repeats what is heard, live.
Talking over, as you mention, might be a technique some people use, but frankly, because of the mental planning that goes into producing sounds, this means that you are preparing for sounds before you hear them, which is pretty much the same as doing it on your own without any feedback. And if anyone is going to mention that hearing what you are saying is feedback, then I'd add that because you would be too busy concentrating on what you're going to say next, most if not all of that feedback would go right over your head. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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