|
 |
Speed Reading for faster learning? | ||
Tags: Reading | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| Lingua Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5574 days ago 186 posts - 319 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 25 of 49 02 October 2009 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Have you tried? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Lingua Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5574 days ago 186 posts - 319 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 26 of 49 02 October 2009 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
A child learns language by hearing language that he/she understands. Adults can do the same. A child can learn language by reading. An adult can do that too. A few months ago my partner decided to learn Swedish. He started by reading a simple book. I helped with comprehension by translating things he did not understand, after finishing that book he read another using a dictionary. He is now on his third book in Swedish, sometimes looking words up in the dictionary, sometimes not. After finishing the first book he began listening to Swedish radio while at work and watching tv online. After only a few months he has achieved basic proficiency in the language. Edited by Lingua on 02 October 2009 at 7:20pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6009 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 27 of 49 02 October 2009 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
There's two main areas of complaint about TPR: 1: The non-verbal signals used by the instructor are a sort of sign language -- the environment is therefore not monolingual. Students have to discern the meaning of these symbols first, then have to "translate" them much as they would native language cues. (Such signals have become mainstream in the TEFL world. 2: TPR focuses very heavily on the imperative mood -- "do this!" "do that!" -- and the imperative mood is only a very small (and often very simple) part of the language. Knowing only the imperative mood leaves the learner at risk of inadvertently coming across as rude. And speaking of rude, there is a fixed teacher-student relationship and nothing else -- the students are not exposed to the rich variety in forms of address (particularly in the 2nd person) that some languages use to reflect relative social standing.
Whether they can or not is not what we are debating (I'd love to debate that, but some other time -- let's not get distracted). What we are debating is whether they do this in the same way. All the evidence points to the answer "no": neuroplasticity says that the learning process of the infant brain is physiologically completely different from the adult brain; the critical period hypothesis (which you elsewhere support) suggest from observation that the ability to acquire a language to a native level drops off at puberty; observations show that adults initially make quicker progress in a language than children; observation shows that adults can echo fairly long and complex phrases with reasonable accuracy whereas children have to go through intermediary stages that don't match the target grammar. The process is demonstrably different, so to use the "like a child" line is false, and all too often just an excuse to skip debate on the actual learning process -- I've never heard anyone justify immersion without calling it "the natural way" or "the way children learn". I just wish people would stop trying to fob us off with this and actually explain it in its own terms.
Trying implies effort -- if he has to try, it's not effortless. Edited by Cainntear on 02 October 2009 at 11:26pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Phexx Diglot Newbie Germany Joined 5531 days ago 8 posts - 12 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French | Message 28 of 49 03 October 2009 at 12:06am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
|
then no child has tried either.
Every child which did not speak perfectly from the first day, but made mistakes obviously tried and therefor is an illusion. or the child did not learn effortless. I think your definition of the word effort isnt helping ;-) Edited by Phexx on 03 October 2009 at 12:07am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Lingua Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5574 days ago 186 posts - 319 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 29 of 49 03 October 2009 at 12:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
As usual you're quibbling for the sake of argument. The "same way" refers to the exposure to comprehensible input, the hearing/reading language that the child/language learner understands. I'm not overly concerned with whatever brain internal processes may be at work, and I don't think most language learners are either.
Again, you're more interested in quibbling than gaining insight into language learning. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| TerryW Senior Member United States Joined 6355 days ago 370 posts - 783 votes Speaks: English* | Message 30 of 49 03 October 2009 at 1:03am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
My point is that it's deceiving ad copy, making it look simple when it obviously is not. There would not be a few hundred thousand posts here on how to learn effectively if all you had to do was listen like a baby, listen while sleeping, etc. Here: "Learn to run as a cheetah does!" Sure, you can get down on all fours with your tail in the air and run as fast as you can. Do you think that's gonna be a good course to win track meets? Have you tried it? ;-) Geez, i don't understand why any of my posts like this don't get any votes. ;-) Edited by TerryW on 03 October 2009 at 1:06am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Lingua Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 5574 days ago 186 posts - 319 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 31 of 49 03 October 2009 at 1:30am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
You have to understand what you hear, so listening while sleeping won't work. I'm sorry, but I'd be lying if I said that it isn't simple. If you expose yourself to large amounts of language that you understand, it is simple, time-consuming, but simple. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| JasonChoi Diglot Senior Member Korea, South Joined 6357 days ago 274 posts - 298 votes Speaks: English*, Korean Studies: Mandarin, Cantonese, Latin | Message 32 of 49 03 October 2009 at 5:35am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I did not mention TPR. I specifically mentioned TPRS, which stands for Teaching Proficiency through Reading and Storytelling. It is an offshoot of TPR and was later developed into a very different method of teaching. TPRS fully addresses the two complaints you mentioned. These two links explain the methodology: http://www.tprstories.com/what-is-tprs.htm https://www.tprstorytelling.com/index.php?option=com_content &task=view&id=2&Itemid=39 3 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
