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EU & Languages: Policies and your view?

  Tags: Europe | Multilingual
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
66 messages over 9 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 4 ... 8 9 Next >>
cordelia0507
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 5837 days ago
1473 posts - 2176 votes 
Speaks: Swedish*
Studies: German, Russian

 
 Message 25 of 66
04 July 2010 at 6:34pm | IP Logged 
Sennin wrote:
cordelia0507 wrote:
What actual language policies does it have that are recommended or stipulated across the area? Does anyone know?

The official "target" is that every European citizen should speak 3 EU languages fluently. There is a deadline for achieving this, 2020 or something. I can't remember exactly.


Thanks for bringing us up to speed on this! Did not know that this was the goal.
If that's the goal, then most of my friends have to up the game a bit if they want to "stick with the programme".

I think the EU entrance criteria (to work at the Commmission) is fluency in two European languages apart from ones own. But somehow really don't think that's true for many of the people who work there - or maybe the tests are very simple?

A friend of mine works at the commission and she took a fluency test in English and French.



Volte wrote:

Why is 'Europe' the key issue here, really?


1) Because it's the topic of the thread.

2) Because I care about Europe and its' future -- it concerns me much more than India or Singapore that you mention. Not that I don't care about them, but they are different cultures and have no shared history with me.

3) Because whether or not you like certain aspects of the EU or its political direction, it has actually been successful: The peace is going on 65 years now; between the countries involved. I think that's unprecedented on this continent. We can do so much better if we don't create chaos and destruction on the continent every 30 years or whatever the average count used to be. The EU has helped us avoid that.

I think that the question about the EUs language policy and linguistic future is important enough to discuss separately, without considering the Far East etc.

There are >500 million citizens of the EU and it will go up as more central European countries (or Turkey or Ukraine) join. To operate efficiently there should be a shared language, that is our own. The less hassle involved in learning that language the better. Most people do not enjoy language studies, particularly not when its forced on them.

Additionally the language situation for India which you mention does not seem particularly enviable to me - I have no personal problem with it, but basically they are using a heavily localised (politely put) version of the language of the former colonial power as their business language... I have more respect for China's policy in this respect; trying to unite everyone with one local language while largely respecting peoples dialects/local languages.




EDIT: No double posts please.

Edited by patuco on 05 July 2010 at 1:16am
2 persons have voted this message useful



johntm93
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5326 days ago
587 posts - 746 votes 
2 sounds
Speaks: English*
Studies: German, Spanish

 
 Message 26 of 66
04 July 2010 at 8:56pm | IP Logged 
cordelia0507 wrote:
johntm93 wrote:
If you are so mad that English is so widespread in Europe, stay away from American media and American things.

That would be VERY hard ;-) I'd have to get a different job, change my eating habits and stop watching TV, listening to radio. And that's just the beginning... However fortunately I have no desire to do that
Alright then, it just seemed like from this (and a couple other of your posts) that you were a little hostile towards it.

Maybe the next lingua franca will be Mandarin? I'd be curious to see how the EU dealt with that.
1 person has voted this message useful



Sennin
Senior Member
Bulgaria
Joined 6033 days ago
1457 posts - 1759 votes 
5 sounds

 
 Message 27 of 66
04 July 2010 at 10:34pm | IP Logged 
cordelia0507 wrote:
Sennin wrote:
cordelia0507 wrote:
What actual language policies does it have that are recommended or stipulated across the area? Does anyone know?

The official "target" is that every European citizen should speak 3 EU languages fluently. There is a deadline for achieving this, 2020 or something. I can't remember exactly.


Thanks for bringing us up to speed on this! Did not know that this was the goal.
If that's the goal, then most of my friends have to up the game a bit if they want to "stick with the programme".


For the UK I don't think it is a realistic goal ;-). Anyway, it's good to know there is some funding going towards languages. It's unlikely they'll cut that even with the current economic trouble, because languages are a priority. And besides, some places in Europe are already trilingual.

cordelia0507 wrote:
I think the EU entrance criteria (to work at the Commmission) is fluency in two European languages apart from ones own. But somehow really don't think that's true for many of the people who work there - or maybe the tests are very simple?

A friend of mine works at the commission and she took a fluency test in English and French.


For people who are from a small country it is effectively 3 languages. Basically, you have to know 2 out of {English, French, German, Spanish, Italian}.


Edited by Sennin on 04 July 2010 at 11:15pm
2 persons have voted this message useful



cordelia0507
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 5837 days ago
1473 posts - 2176 votes 
Speaks: Swedish*
Studies: German, Russian

 
 Message 28 of 66
04 July 2010 at 11:29pm | IP Logged 
johntm93 wrote:
Maybe the next lingua franca will be Mandarin? I'd be curious to see how the EU dealt with that.


If China had military bases scattered across Europe, if Chinese culture and values were the norm that you saw everywhere around you and Chinese language was a mandatory school subject without which you could not expect to go to university or have a decent career

...and anyone who didn't support this was labelled/stigmatised "anti-Chinese..."
Dong ma?

....then I'd feel quite bad about it and seriously consider emigarating to America ;-)


As for what the EU would do; Well I think one of the EUs secret (or not so secret) objectives is to prevent that type of scenario!





1 person has voted this message useful



Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6438 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 29 of 66
05 July 2010 at 1:14am | IP Logged 
John Smith wrote:
French and German? Do you know that English is a mix of the two languages? It's roughly 30% Germanic 60% Romance. 10% various/unknown.

As a result it is quite neutral. A native German speaker and a native French speaker meet each other half way when they speak English!

I personally hate Esperanto because it claims to be something that it's not. Neutral? Please. As a slavic speaker I feel offended when I hear anyone make this claim. A monolingual Czech/Polish/Russian speaker will have a hard time trying to find familiar words. A French speaker on the other hand will understand Esperanto within a few months. A neutral European language should be 30% Germanic 30% Romance 30% Slavic and 10% Greek/Hungarian/Finish/Basque/any other small European language.

This ist whatt Esperanto appears like. No Neutrale at alles. Juste a mixe of Germaine and Francais.


Esperanto and English both have primarily Germanic and Romance roots. A higher percentage of Esperanto ones are Slavic - Esperanto is full of words like 'klopodi'.

Language neutrality is not purely a matter of word roots, either.

You can think whatever you want about Esperanto, but why make up total nonsense about what it looks like? What you wrote doesn't look anything like Esperanto.

2 persons have voted this message useful



Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6438 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 30 of 66
05 July 2010 at 1:20am | IP Logged 
cordelia0507 wrote:
Volte wrote:

Why is 'Europe' the key issue here, really?


1) Because it's the topic of the thread.

2) Because I care about Europe and its' future -- it concerns me much more than India or Singapore that you mention. Not that I don't care about them, but they are different cultures and have no shared history with me.

3) Because whether or not you like certain aspects of the EU or its political direction, it has actually been successful: The peace is going on 65 years now; between the countries involved. I think that's unprecedented on this continent. We can do so much better if we don't create chaos and destruction on the continent every 30 years or whatever the average count used to be. The EU has helped us avoid that.

I think that the question about the EUs language policy and linguistic future is important enough to discuss separately, without considering the Far East etc.

There are >500 million citizens of the EU and it will go up as more central European countries (or Turkey or Ukraine) join. To operate efficiently there should be a shared language, that is our own. The less hassle involved in learning that language the better. Most people do not enjoy language studies, particularly not when its forced on them.

Additionally the language situation for India which you mention does not seem particularly enviable to me - I have no personal problem with it, but basically they are using a heavily localised (politely put) version of the language of the former colonial power as their business language... I have more respect for China's policy in this respect; trying to unite everyone with one local language while largely respecting peoples dialects/local languages.


I'm not claiming India is a model to emulate when it comes to language policy; it's not. I also care about Europe. I was simply pointing out that English-speaking culture does not imply American; given the time you've spent in the UK, I do wonder a bit at how often you seem to equate the English language with the USA.

However, I think that aiming for a pan-European lingua franca which is not English - whether it be French, German, Russian, or even my beloved Esperanto - in opposition to years of work in Europe, and while the rest of the world is also converging on English for international communication, is shooting Europe's future in the foot for no reason.

Europe does a lot of business with the far East, including a lot of manufacturing, and also has other economic ties outside of Europe, including for raw materials; ignoring that is not wise for anyone who does care about Europe's future. A totally isolationist Europe would be one without computers...

1 person has voted this message useful



guesto
Groupie
Australia
Joined 5740 days ago
76 posts - 118 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, Spanish

 
 Message 31 of 66
05 July 2010 at 1:26am | IP Logged 
In my opinion it should not be within the EU's jurisdiction to influence language matters. It should be up to member states to decide.

As for Esperanto, it is not neutral. I wouldn't learn it simply because it has unpleasant historical and political connotations.
3 persons have voted this message useful



mrhenrik
Triglot
Moderator
Norway
Joined 6078 days ago
482 posts - 658 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, English, French
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 32 of 66
05 July 2010 at 3:42am | IP Logged 
Discrediting English because of the political parts of it seems a bit silly - whichever
language you choose is going to be of a high political and economic advantage to the
country speaking it. Whatever the situation would ideally be, the real situation now is
that a large country in the union speaks English, very large parts of the union speaks
English as a second language - basically a lot of people understand it. The language is
easier to learn for non-English speakers because of large parts of entertainment being
in the language, and it has largely become the lingua franca of the internet.

Add that to the fact that English is to a large degree the international lingua franca
for a lot of things, that it's used in university lectures in Scandinavia for instance,
and that it's an official language (reasons irrelevant) in many countries in the world
- and I find that there's very few objective reasons for replacing English's dominance
with any other language.

Subjectively there may be many reasons, but I would hope the EU isn't run subjectively.

Now, aguementing English with other languages would be a good thing, and would
add to Europe's cultural diversity. I'd reckon French is a good alternative, being
taught in many schools around Europe and also being used elsewhere in the world as an
official language.

Edited by mrhenrik on 05 July 2010 at 3:44am


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