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Tags: Using Foreign Languages | Living Language | Catalan | Romance Languages | Latin | Russian | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 9 of 109 12 April 2013 at 2:15pm | IP Logged |
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A partir de mañana mis hijos tienen "vacaciones de primavera" durante dos semanas, así que aprovechamos para ir una semana a Valencia. Tengo ya ganas de sentarme en una terraza en la playa de Malvarrosa y comer una buena paella. También voy a aprovechar el viaje para buscar algo de material en catalán. Necesito un buen diccionario y una gramática de referencia. Actualmente estoy leyendo "La mare balena" de Victor Català, el lenguaje no es demasiado difícil, pero como la historia está situada en un pueblo de pescadores, de vez en cuando hay palabras que no conozco.
Apart from eating paella on the beach, one of the pleasures of going to Valencia is that I have a lot of language books waiting for me there. We lived in Valencia before coming to France, and we still have a flat there, where I have most of my book collection. Each time we go, I bring home some language learning material. Not sure what to pick this time - but I might bring home some of the Romansh material I have. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 10 of 109 25 April 2013 at 6:17pm | IP Logged |
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I am back from Spain, where I spent a hectic but nice week. I did get some time to study languages, and I dived into my book collection and recovered a few precious objects which have been gathering dust too long. As mentioned in my previous post, I decided to take back some books in and about Romansh this time, as I became fascinated with this language and its situation ever since I was introduced to it at university. Apart from a grammar and a couple of dictionaries, I also have some novels and collections of short stories in Romansh, two of which I have never read, so they are now high on my reading list.
This return to Romansh also made me visit the homepage of Lia Rumantscha, the association that works for the protection and promotion of the language. They now have an online bookstore (which also includes music and other stuff). I even found some Romansh music to download as mp3 on amazon. I guess spending time on Romansh really makes me a true language nerd, as the opportunity to speak with people is fairly limited, to say the least, unless I take a trip to the valleys of Graubünden. However, it is really fascinating that a language spoken by only around 60.000 people in the world still has a vibrant culture and an important literary output. Romansh literature obviously often deals with the question of being a minority, as well as the conflict between traditional countryside life and modernity. And from a purely linguistic point of view it is an interesting member of the Romance family well worth studying if you are into comparative philology. For me, all this is reason enough to dedicate some time and effort on this language. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 11 of 109 30 April 2013 at 2:43pm | IP Logged |
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CAT: Actualment estic llegint les memòries de Jordi Pujol, home polític català qui va ser President de la Generalitat de Catalunya del 1980 al 2003. Pujol va escriure les seves memòries en tres volums. He començat amb el tercer i últim, qui parla dels anys 1993 al 2011, perquè en aquest període és quan vaig conèixer bé Espanya i m’interessava la política espanyola i la situació de Catalunya. Jordi Pujol és sense dubte un dels polítics més influents d’aquella època, i per tant tenia curiositat per saber el que pensa aquell home polític. Els dos primers volums tracten dels anys 1930-1980 i 1980-1993 respectivament.
(I am currently reading in Catalan the third volum of Jordi Pujol's autobiography. Pujol was President of Catalonia for 23 years, and one of the most influential politicians in Spain in the 1990s. I started on the third and last book because it covers the period when I started to become "intimate" with Spain and got interested in Spanish and Catalan politics.) In addition I have also spent some time revising Romansh grammar. I focus on Sursilvan, one of the five main dialects that exist in written form (and the one with most users), because this is the one I learnt at university. It is also the most "useful" one insofar as it has quite a rich literary tradition. I have also ordered a couple of books from Lia Rumantscha, including a trilingual cooking book(!) - it is in Rumantsch Grischun, German and English. I look forward to trying out some typical Graubündner recipes while learning culinary vocabulary in Romansh. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 12 of 109 16 May 2013 at 5:57pm | IP Logged |
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He acabat de llegir el tercer volum de les memòries de Jordi Pujol. El llibre va ser interessant, encara que òbviament és una apología de la seva política com a president de la Generalitat. Ara, el català del senyor Pujol és bastant fàcil de llegir, és clar i precís.
Apart from finishing reading the third volum of Jordi Pujol's memories (and the book is written in a clear and precise language, so it was not that difficult to read in Catalan), I have spent quite a lot of time on Romansh lately. Finally the books I had ordered arrived. As regards the cooking book, I have just had a brief look at it so far. However, the other book I ordered has turned out to be really great. It is called "La petta de spigias" ("the ear cake" - ear in the meaning of "grain-bearing tip part of the stem of a cereal plant, such as wheat or maize"), by the author Ursicin G.G. Derungs. This is also an autobiography, but a truly fascinating one, in which he writes about his childhood growing up in the village of Vella in Surselva, Grison in the 1940s, and subsequently his entering a convent school in Mustér/Disentis. Ursicin G.G. Derungs went on to study theology, took holy orders and entered the Benedictine convent in Mustér. However, later in life he left the monastery, got married and went to work as a teacher in Milan. This book only deals with the first part of his life, as a child and student. He has written a second book dealing with the later years of his life, and I will certainly get hold of it once I finish this one. Since the book itself is so interesting, the fact that I have to look up quite a few words does not bother me too much. On the contrary I found it very encouraging to see how easily I could still read Romontsch Sursilvan, as I have not really read much in that language for the last 20 years or so. Obviously, knowing other Romance languages, in particular Italian and Catalan, helps a lot. Reading this book I cannot help but think that if Mr. Derungs had written in a major language like English, German or French, he would probably have had a good chance of becoming a famous writer. As it is now, he is a rather polemic figure in the Romansh-speaking world (due to his somewhat critical attitude towards some practices of the Catholic church) and if his books sell more than a 1000 copies I would be surprised. However, I think it is very important that there are people like him who make a deliberate choice to write in a small language like Romansh - I believe it is essential to keeping these languages alive. And for me personally, when I find a book like this, I think that all the hours I have put in studying the language has been very worthwhile. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 13 of 109 24 May 2013 at 3:45pm | IP Logged |
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I try to keep up my studies in Greek and Russian, but lately my favourite “pet” is this rare bird called Romansh, as I have already mentioned in the last couple of posts. Apart from reading the book by Derungs, I have spent some time with the website of RTR - Radiutelevisiun Svizra Rumantscha (www.rtr.ch). The texts are written in Rumantsch Grischun, the common written language of the different dialects of Romansh. However, in the radio and TV podcasts at the site, people will talk in their own dialect. This makes it quite challenging to make sense of everything, as I am pretty familiar with Romontsch Sursilvan, but much less so with the other dialects.
In fact, in Romansh they prefer not to speak of dialects. One distinguishes rather between “lungatg” – language, and “idioms”. The “lungatg” is Romansh, which consists of five main “idioms”, each with its own written standard. In addition you have a sixth common standard, Rumantsch Grischun (RG), introduced and promoted by Lia Rumantscha, the umbrella organisation of Romansh-speaking organisations. This common standard has not been without controversy. It is supposed to be a language of instruction and administration, used for writing only (a bit like Hochdeutsch is the written standard for the various dialects of Swiss German), but the introduction of RG in primary schools in Grischun has met with quite some resistance from parents who prefer their children to learn to write in their own idiom. As regards the five idioms, there are some significant differences, not least between the two most important ones (important in the sense of having most users), Sursilvan, spoken in Surselva (mainly the valley of Vorderrhein) and Vallader, spoken in Engadina bassa (the valley of the Inn). For instance, in Sursilvan the negation of a verb is expressed with “buca” placed after the verb, e.g. “Jeu beibel buc” (I don’t drink). However, in Vallader it is expressed with “nu” placed before the verb: “Eu nu baiv”. Vallader has some verbal tenses which do not exist in Sursilvan, and vice versa. And of course there are some differences in phonology and morphology. All this make mutual comprehension difficult, but not impossible. One of the interesting features of the language is how it has been influenced by its Germanic neighbour, not only as regards vocabulary, but also with regard to syntax etc. I might write a separate post on that later on. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 14 of 109 11 June 2013 at 4:32pm | IP Logged |
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I have had a few hectic weeks, including some travelling. I had a work-related trip to Budapest for two days (no, not to the polyglot conference, unfortunately) and went on a long weekend to Salamanca, Spain, due to a family event. The good thing about travelling is that I get a lot of study done when sitting on a plane or a train.
Apart from my continued endeavour to study Greek and Russian, I have continued reading Romansh, and from time to time I listen to the podcasts at RTR. Some of them are quite interesting and a good listening practice. They have this series called Forum, it is a thirty minutes long programme where a personality talks about and analyses a topic. Recently I have listened to one about Mozart’s opera Don Giovanni, and another about Emperor Konstantin the Great and the edict of Milan. I listened to them while walking to work, but I will listen again in front of my desk with pen and paper so as to write down words I don’t understand and hopefully be able to look them up in the dictionary. Late last week I was told that I have to go for work to Sofia, Bulgaria at the end of this week. It will be a short trip, from Thursday to Saturday, but it triggered my linguistic curiosity (as always) and I started looking around the web for information about Bulgarian. When I compare it to Russian, there are both interesting similarities and differences. One of the things that strike me is certain grammatical similarities with Romanian, such as the existence of a post-fixed definite article and the replacement of the infinitive with a subjunctive clause. Another difference compared to Russian is that there are no noun cases (except vocative). On the other hand there seems to be a lot of shared vocabulary between Bulgarian and Russian. I do not have any serious plans to learn Bulgarian, it was never on my wish list in the first place. However, whenever I go a new country I like to know something about the language, even if I don’t know the language. And I am happy that thanks to Russian I will be able to read street signs etc written in Cyrillic. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 15 of 109 17 June 2013 at 5:28pm | IP Logged |
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I am back from Sofia, and it was an interesting experience. My knowledge of Russian is still at a basic level but it nevertheless helped me understand some Bulgarian I read on signs and posters. Being there certainly was an inspiration to work harder on my Russian, and my appetite for Slavic languages increased.
Am Wochenende habe ich auch einen Artikel im Spiegel gelesen über Sprache und Etikette. Es gibt einige interessante Observationen, z.B. dass in Österreich die Titel sehr wichtig sind, aber die Österreicher duzen sich häufiger als die Deutschen. Der Artikel behauptet auch, dass die Schweden siezen sich mehr als vor einigen Jahren. Ich bin seit lange nicht in Schweden gewesen, und kann deshalb nicht sagen ob das war ist, es ist sicherlich nicht der Fall in Norwegen, wo niemand siezt sich mehr. (This weekend I read an article in Der Spiegel about language and etiquette. The article claims that in Austria titles are very important, but that people use the informal "du" more than the Germans do. It alsy says that the polite "Sie"-form has something of a renaissance in Sweden, something I cannot confirm or deny. It is certainly not the case in Norway, where everyone says "du" to everyone.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4637 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 16 of 109 26 June 2013 at 4:44pm | IP Logged |
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Last weekend, almost on an impulse, I put the family in the car and headed for Surselva, Graubünden, Switzerland. My newfound love for Romansh has for some time made me dream of going back there (last time I went must have been in 1987) and now I could not wait any longer. I found a nice little family hotel in the beautiful village of Disentis/Mustér and we stayed for two nights, exploring the valley and the mountains during the day and enjoying the local cuisine in the evening - by the way, I can recommend "capuns" highly to any foodie out there, a truly Romansh specialty.
Mustér is one of the villages where Rumantsch sursilvan is still spoken by a lot of people. The family who run the hotel where we stayed, did speak the language. Now I should say right away that I cannot claim to speak Romansh. I read it fairly well, largely thanks to my knowledge of Italian and other Romance languages, but since I have not practised Romansh at all since 1987, well, apart from a few sentences most conversation had to be in German. (Another challenge, by the way, because even if people tried to "standardise" their Swiss German, the accent is still pretty strong and some words are totally different from Hochdeutsch.) Mustér, as well as other villages in Surselva, is perfectly bilingual, but of course German is everywhere. I did notice that many signs, official notices etc. were written in Romansh, but at our hotel for instance, the menu in the restaurant was only in German. I guess from an economical point of view it makes sense, although the locals may come and eat from time to time, the majority of customers will be tourists (and most will be from Germany, Austria or other parts of Switzerland). I got the impression that people are proud of their language, but there are no "anti-German" feelings, the Romansh-speakers move effortlessly between both languages in a natural way. If only Switzerland weren't so expensive, then I'd love to go there for a longer period, and maybe even take a small intensive course in Romansh, just to get to know more people and practise the language a little bit. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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