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Mooby’s TAC2013 - Team Żubr - Polish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6103 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 41 of 134 23 April 2013 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I had a chuckle the other day when I discovered that the Polish word for "camel" is effectively "great mistake" (wielbłąd). I'd love to know etymology of that!
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| pesahson Diglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5726 days ago 448 posts - 840 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: French, Portuguese, Norwegian | Message 42 of 134 23 April 2013 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ask and you shall receive!
Written by Maciej Malinowski: "W języku gockim (języku germańskiego plemienia Gotów) istniało słowo ulbandus, mające związek z łacińskim wyrazem elephantus i greckim elefas (dopełniacz elefantos). Wszystkie one oznaczały słonia. Myśmy przejęli staro-cerkiewno-słowiańską postać tego słowa, czyli wielbąd, modyfikując je później na wielbląd, potem na wielbrąd, a następnie na wielbłąd, która to forma obowiązuje do dzisiaj i nazywa garbate zwierzę. Dlaczego Słowianom słoń pomylił się z wielbłądem? Dlatego, że z opowiadań czy żywotów świętych słyszeli oni o jakimś wielkim, egzotycznym zwierzęciu, więc pierwszemu napotkanemu stworzeniu o takich rozmiarach nadali nazwę zarezerwowaną etymologicznie dla słonia. Dla naszych protoplastów nie miało większego znaczenia, jakiego używają określenia: słoń czy wielbłąd? Zapożyczona nazwa ulbandus (elephantus), czyli słoń, przylgnęła do zwierzęcia, który okazał się... wielbłądem. Ale na tej pomyłce wcale się nie skończyło. Proszę sobie wyobrazić, że wyraz słoń, wywodzący się ze słowiańskiego słowa slon?, ma z kolei wiele wspólnego z orientalnym (tureckim) wyrazem e(r)slan, który oznacza... tygrysa. Jak widać, wielbłąd ukradł nazwę słoniowi, a słoń zabrał ją tygrysowi! In the language of Goths an elephant was called ulbandus which probably came from latin elephantos or greek elefas. For Slavs, who never saw neither an elephant nor a camel, it basically meant an large, exotic animal that lived far away. In the old church slavonic the word became wielbąd it turned into wielbrąd and later into wielbłąd. What's more the word słoń probably comes from the Turkish word erslan which means tiger. :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7154 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 43 of 134 23 April 2013 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Actually, Turks use a(r)slan for a lion, and kaplan for a tiger. The former word (or a look-alike of it) is typical of Central Asian languages
aрыҫлан (Bashkir), aрсалан (Buryat), aрăслан (Chuvash), Арыстан (Kazakh), aрслан (Mongolian), aрыслан (Tatar) and arslon (Uzbek) This word entered Hungarian, Mari and Udmurt too as oroszlán, aрыслан and aр(ы)слан respectively. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6103 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 44 of 134 23 April 2013 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you pesahon!
Well, that ruined my theory. I had a fanciful idea that a Polish explorer took one look at a camel and thought to himself "hmm, it's not a donkey, mule, horse or bison. And there's something weird about its humpy back - this has to be a big mistake Therefore I'll call it a wielbłąd!" I can see the 'large /great' aspect [wiel-] meaning a generic term for some big exotic beast. I'm not sure what the bąd > brąd > błąd originally refers to. Maybe the word isn't divisable anyway. Anecdotally: As a boy, I once had a ride on a camel and I remember I was absolutely terrified. The handler kept making the animal run faster and I was struggling not to fall off. The camel I had, would frequently twist it's head to face me, giving me a close-up view of its yellow teeth dripping in foul saliva. 'Big Mistake' is certainly an appropriate name in my mind! Either way, it's one Polish word I'll never forget. Edited by Mooby on 24 April 2013 at 12:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6103 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 45 of 134 26 April 2013 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Anki = 3750
Hours Studied = 21 (Total: 394) I ground through a few more pages of Colloquial Polish, listened to Samo Życie and a few radio podcasts. I have also started to read Kroniki Kresu (The Edge Chronicles by Paul Stewart). I've never heard of this series before; it's children's fantasy fiction so when I saw a cheap version I thought I'd try it. The vocabulary is heavy-going - there are so many exotic words, but I've only committed to learn the more prevalent ones for the time being. At this rate it's going to take many weeks to plough through it (269 pages). I met with Aga this morning and worked on my pronounciation. 1. The ń at the end of a word, such as koń is proving to be quite tricky. I tend to exaggerate the lift and put too much 'eee' into the sound. 2. The ę at the end of a word is another one I struggle with. Aga assures me that the nasal aspect is really only made deliberate in words like się and cię, but many Poles pronounce the 'ę' (at the end of a word) like a straight 'e'. However, some of the older generation prefer to retain the nasality on every occasion - I noticed this when I spoke to Aga's mother. I hope I have understood this correctly (I ought to by now) - please tell me otherwise! Words of the Week Odsunąć perf. - 'to move away', 'move back', 'push away', 'push back'. Add się and we get 'to back off', 'withdraw'. I moved the table back ('odsunałem stół') He gently pushed her away ('delikatnie odsunał ją od siebie') Please back off and leave me in peace! ('proszę się odsunąć i zostawić mnie w spokoju') Spowodowany - 'caused by', 'brought about by'. Diseases caused by obesity ('choroby spowodowane otyłością') Dynia - 'pumpkin' 'butternut squash'. Edited by Mooby on 26 April 2013 at 8:03pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 5128 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 46 of 134 26 April 2013 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | ||
Wow, even the wikipedia article on the series is difficult to understand :) Let us know how you progress, I'm always interested in reading strategies... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6103 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 47 of 134 26 April 2013 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks Bakunin.
My stategy is to read this book intensively (I look up words and type phrases into the google translator to examine syntax - I know google isn't always correct but it gives some useful intepretations of meaning). This is very slow, but the focus is on the mechanics of the language so accuracy is important. I have another book (Awantura o Basię) which I read extensively. In this case I don't look up words and I read with as few pauses as possible. The focus is on getting the gist of the book. It helps to develop scanning ability - the faculty that enables you to look at a newspaper article for 5 seconds and quickly get what the theme is about, if not the details. I also read various blogs online for fun. When I can find them, I listen to audiobooks and read the transcript. If I read very slowly (and not outloud - so I don't have to actively pronounce anything), then I just about grasp comprehension simultaneously. However, if I read at normal speed, my brain lags a few seconds behind, so I am forced to re-read sections to get the meaning. My brain is slowly getting comfortable with the visual appearance of Polish; it's otherness compared to English and all those consonant clusters. What I find takes longer to absorb, is the syntax. I may know the individual words, but not necessarily the word order, passive/active forms of expression etc. EDIT The bottom line is, I need to read a ton more than I currently do! Edited by Mooby on 26 April 2013 at 10:23pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mjrobertson Groupie United Kingdom Joined 6473 days ago 40 posts - 41 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 48 of 134 27 April 2013 at 10:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I've been following your log and it looks like you're making good progress with Polish. Quite impressive! I was wondering if you would mind making some recommendations about how to start learning Polish and what you've found the best resources to be? A friend of mine has a Polish wife and he has been trying, with very limited success, to get into Polish.
I'm sure that if he could start with and stick a particular resource then that would set him along the path to success. So...any help you can give would be great! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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