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Listening-Reading system | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7202 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 265 of 489 04 August 2007 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
It depends on how closely the language you know and the one you are learning are. English and French are related, so one doesn't have to be too proficient to recognize a "bad" translation.
Good old Guttenberg has copies in French and English of Journey to the Center of the Earth and Around the World in Eighty Days. Same author, same genre, same language. Journey has a good translation. The structure of the sentences is very similar. The translator neither cuts nor adds too much. The English translation is quite readable. Eighty Days has a poor translation. The translator leaves his boot marks all over the story. Sentences are restructured, rephrased, run-on, omitted, and augmented. Similarly, paragraphs are at times joined and restructured, changing the rhythm of the story. Doing a side by side comparison of the original and the translation make the judgement of "good" and "bad" less than entirely subjective. By the way, in case anyone missed it in her opening post:
Edited by luke on 04 August 2007 at 1:34pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7025 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 266 of 489 04 August 2007 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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In language learning, translations are, in my experience, only needed at the beginning. For a language learner, the nearer to word for word translation, the better. Since language learning involves a lot of acceptance of uncertainty and unclarity, the quality of the translation does not really matter that much, it is just an assist in the process of learning a new language.
At LingQ we encourage our learners to translate some of our easier content into their own language and share this with other learners. We do not really worry about the quality.Although if there are major problems someone will tell us. Reading a translation as a literary experience is different. If the translation is itself not a literary creation, we will have a poor experience and may not continue.The translation is the experience, whereas in language learning the translation is a minor part of the experience. I do not believe it siomotteikiru's lack of mastery of English, nor even a patronizing attitude that is behind some of her outlandish posts. I suspect it is narrow mindedness, intolerance and a lack of knowledge. The three are often connected. As language learners and lovers of reading, we need to remember that learning languages or reading the Brothers Kramazov are not more noble activities than gardening or bicycle riding or any other activity. And people who do not read and only speak one language can be just as sincere, honest, generous and loving as anyone else. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| FSI Senior Member United States Joined 6356 days ago 550 posts - 590 votes Speaks: English* | Message 267 of 489 04 August 2007 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Very well said. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| siomotteikiru Senior Member Zaire Joined 6358 days ago 102 posts - 242 votes | Message 268 of 489 04 August 2007 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thanks Lucky Luke.
My command of English is rather limited. Though I understand it very well (Shakespeare included), I haven’t been using it for years and I’ve never learned how to write. And my word processor spellchecker is turned off. I don’t mean to hurt anybody’s feelings. But I like to enrage anybody who likes to be enraged. And I have no time to carefully choose my words. As to translators. I’ve noticed that translations into English (by native speakers of English) are often very poor. Hans Christian Andersen, the greatest writer and poet who ever lived, was murdered in English. English translations of Russian and Polish literature are usually just a shadow of the original work. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6444 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 269 of 489 06 August 2007 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Have you read Andersen in Danish? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6672 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 270 of 489 11 August 2007 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I am using something like this with films. I wrote here about the DVD movies method a few months ago: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=5257&KW=DVD+movie Using a film that you like a lot: 1-Watch the movie in your own language with captions in your target language. 2-Watch the movie in your target language with captions in your own language 3-Watch movie with audio and captions in your target language. 4-Watch movie only with audio in your target language. It seems the listening-reading system with audio books put more enphasis on step 2: listening L2 and reading L1. Or I understand that. I am using this approach with movies, but sometimes I avoid step 1. If I have the script, I read it and save the unknown words with freeware (Clips 101,CueCard and dictionaries on line). I find this method very useful and I guess is more useful for the average Joe. A lot of people don't like to read. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| audiolang Diglot Senior Member Romania Joined 6317 days ago 108 posts - 109 votes 2 sounds Speaks: Romanian*, English | Message 271 of 489 12 August 2007 at 10:30am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It's a shame that a lot of people don't like to read,you'll find in books a lot more richer and fulfilling vocabulary than in Star Trek.
Not that I don't find the DVD movies method good but there is one big difficulty,finding the movie in my target language ,how will I do that? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6672 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 272 of 489 13 August 2007 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree with you, but I think more people like films than books and audio books. Anyway I think films are better method if you want to learn the real, street language with visual context. And can be good method to learn languages. It reminds me that Ardaschir wrote about this:
Actually, watching films with subtitles in your own language is similar to listening audio books reading the translation in your own language (Listening-reading system step 3) I think we can use both methods. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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