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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5226 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 17 of 37 03 June 2011 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
In my experience this kind of contempt for other people's languages vanishes after some forced confinement in 'the expat bubble'. I've had some very positive reactions ('Absolutely amazing') from English speakers who felt they could 'finally have a normal conversation', after they got used to natives speaking only broken or very basic English, if any at all. On a related note I was once approached by a complete stranger from Argentina while I was at a computing convention in Germany, speaking Spanish with a business associate over lunch. The old man was so glad he could speak Spanish with someone else (he happened to be having lunch there by sheer chance) he retained us for nearly half an hour after lunch time was over. I was kind of annoyed first because we were missing an interesting presentation but it paid off in the end, the guy was so warm. Over time I've felt more and more related to the guy, I must be getting old and/or human :) And Russians... tourists are usually all 'ohh's and 'ahh's when they hear some Russian here in Spain, but my friends' friends... I can't count how many drinks I've been bought just because I bother to learn a bit of the language. It's like the English speakers I mentioned before, only 10-fold more intense because I'm not really conversational in Russian at all, but my Russian friends live in a dump in the coast where almost no one speaks even decent Spanish. So I figure in the end you can expect much better reactions from tourists or expats than from in-country speakers of major languages, and generally good reactions from speakers of less widespread languages. Edit: of course, when you receive one of these positive reactions, you're much more likely to get some intimacy with the person, but I think this is more related to the kind of person you show them to be than to languages themselves. Edited by mrwarper on 03 June 2011 at 6:20pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5766 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 18 of 37 14 June 2011 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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When I went to Russia a few years ago as part of a summer program that the university
had organised, I had fairly mixed reactions. TixhiiDon said before that when he spoke Russian, asking for metro tickets, the attendant reacted very rudely (again, by British standards). I remember being treated in the same way when buying metro tickets, when ordering food and other pretty mundane things. But then people can act in a very similar way when doing jobs like that over here too - they're not necessarily hacked off at the fact that you're a foreigner, just by the fact that they have to be there. I get the same frosty reception when I order a milkshake at McDonalds or whatever in this country, and I can assure you that my spoken English is fine. I do however remember some Russians who were fantastically helpful and very patient with mine and my friends' Russian. One particular day we were wondering how to find some place or other, and my friends were too nervous to ask anyone. I stopped someone and asked them to explain how to get to wherever it was - not only was the man very patient with me, speaking slower and helping me with hand gestures when I didn't remember what перевод meant (an underpass), he complimented my Russian at the end of it, which gave me a huge boost for the rest of my time there. In my experience also, natives of lesser-spoken languages are very helpful and encouraging when you speak their language. I went to Slovenia for a few days last year, as I was studying Slovene at uni at the time and wanted to visit the country. I remember one particular conversation with a waiter in Ljubljana. I insisted on speaking in Slovene the whole time, which he seemed to find a bit odd. He then asked me (in English) why I wanted to learn a language that so few people speak in a country that so many people haven't heard of. I answered (in Slovene) that I am a language enthusiast and that no language should be judged by the number of speakers it has. I replied that I loved what I'd seen of the country and I loved the language itself. We then continued the conversation in Slovene - and although I don't think I convinced him of all that much, I was satisfied at the end because he spoke Slovene with me without any objection. Everyone else I spoke to in Slovene was astonished I even knew how to say please and thank you - so seemed overjoyed when I said anything more complicated. Edit - Come to think of it, when my friends come to visit my relatives in Wales with me, my relatives are always pretty happy when my friends even say please and thank you in Welsh. Jack Edited by LanguageSponge on 14 June 2011 at 2:46pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| starrye Senior Member United States Joined 5094 days ago 172 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 19 of 37 15 June 2011 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, I know that most Americans would simply expect foreigners to speak English, and in general you'll get no extra appreciation here if you do. We are used to foreigners having a good command of the language so we tend to take it for granted unfortunately. But I do think that when people put in the extra effort to use a few American idioms and expressions here or there, it does make us feel immediately closer. A foreigner greeting me or my group of friends with "Hey, what's up?" with an American accent comes off as friendly and accessible...we would be more likely to want to strike up a conversation with you.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| s0fist Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5046 days ago 260 posts - 445 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Sign Language, German, Spanish, French | Message 20 of 37 16 June 2011 at 12:49am | IP Logged | |||||
Very true, some people are just tired of and dissatisfied with boring jobs, especially ones dealing with lots of human traffic. I wouldn't take it as a reflection on your language skills.
In the spirit of being helpful, I think you meant переход. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5226 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 21 of 37 16 June 2011 at 1:54am | IP Logged | |||||
I guess it really depends on something else. As I said before, I can as patient with tourists as I won't be with people living in the country, because expecting others to adapt and bear with you when you're in their country... well I find it less than reasonable, to say the least. So, I expect everyone around to either be an obvious tourist, or have a reasonable command of the local language. That said, any stranger addressing me with any kind of undue informality / familiarity (as in overintimacy) would immediately come across as some kind of buffoon, period. Being friendly just isn't the same thing as being brought up in a farm barn. I've seen many English speakers make excuses saying that they have no formal vs formal personal pronouns, etc. but I'm afraid that simply won't cut it. If you don't know somebody well, I'd hardly find it advisable to strike up a conversation with 'hey, dude', 'man', 'buddy', or whatever. I consider myself young enough to be addressed by strangers colloquially or informally, and yet respectfully. Once we're friends, well, it's up to you to pepper up your language with colloquialisms, or even swear a little. Damn, dude, boning up on it isn't everything ;) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| starrye Senior Member United States Joined 5094 days ago 172 posts - 280 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese | Message 22 of 37 16 June 2011 at 4:34am | IP Logged | |||||
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Well I wouldn't suggest going overboard with slang or using super casual language out of the blue at, say,
a business meeting, or some other more formal or professional situation. No. But speaking in an a casual way where Americans would be doing so amongst themselves (at I don't know, a bar, or pub, or something like that). Not just casual expressions. But something that shows you are sensitive to the culture. What it comes down to is having a feel for the culture in question, and what the social cues are. Americans will generally appreciate the extra effort and feel at ease, if they sense you are trying to fit in. At least, that's my impression as an American. (note, I'm referring to foreigners in the US, and not Americans in foreign countries which is a different case. ) Edited by starrye on 16 June 2011 at 4:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lootrock Diglot Newbie United States Joined 5752 days ago 18 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Mandarin, Arabic (Egyptian), Russian | Message 23 of 37 22 June 2011 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I agree. As an American, having a certain familiarity puts us at ease. Some foreigners can be overly formal and it feels uncomfortable though "hey, whats up dude" to a random stranger definitely may be overboard.
In my experience, speaking chinese has gotten far more responses from native Americans than from the Chinese for example. Usually when I speak Chinese to them they are either stupefied or seem as though its the most normal thing in the world. I usually receive compliments though I have a hard to judging the sincerity. French on the other hand almost always raises the level of intimacy. Usually when I speak french to french people we don't switch back to English. I'm taking french in college now as part of my major and since I can already speak the language I am very close with my professor. It seems that a lot of french people are self conscious about their English so if you speak even mediocre french you will be showered with compliments. When I was learning egyptian arabic, I also noticed they were very surprised I was learning a dialect. To me it only seemed natural to learn a language of communication and I was under the impression that was more common that it actually is. All of my old arabic language partners were very gracious and helpful. All in all every language I've ever studied has certainly raised the intimacy levels in various situations. As of late, most of these are at parties where I meet people from all of the world or other students of language and it's always a blast. Edited by Lootrock on 22 June 2011 at 2:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| LanguageSponge Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5766 days ago 1197 posts - 1487 votes Speaks: English*, German, French Studies: Welsh, Russian, Japanese, Slovenian, Greek, Italian | Message 24 of 37 04 July 2011 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
Oh dear, I did indeed. Perhaps that should go on the "You know you're a language nerd when..." thread - I am sure when we're faced with two quite similar words like перевод (a translation) and переход (an underpass), some of us will write down the one which has most to do with language - like I did - whether that's the word you need or not. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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