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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| null Groupie China Joined 6126 days ago 76 posts - 82 votes  Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 25 of 48 24 January 2011 at 12:56am | IP Logged | |||||
I'll give you a shot on this, the fact is, Japanese no longer have 'NATIVE' forms of these words, they just put them into Katakanas, so basically they are just some English words with a Japanese coat. Edited by null on 24 January 2011 at 12:57am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5086 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 26 of 48 24 January 2011 at 6:31am | IP Logged | |||||
First of all, I have never wrote "ALL" in here. This is a straw-man fallacy. Second, the 時間 in your citation means "now" and "present". It is different from Modern meaning like "one'o clock," "two o clock". You can look up the commentary of the literature. 元秦簡夫《剪髮待賓》：「雖則時間受窘，久 後必然發跡。」 這裡說：雖然在這段日子困窘，將來必有好兆 。然這個 “時間”，屬意是於當時某一段曾經 的時段內，意即某日子內。故此時間便要讀時 （奸） You can even guess the meaning yourself, if you put modern meaning into it, it just doesn't sound right. "Although 時間 suffers poverty, later must gain fame and fortune". So the second part tells you about future, the first part must be something about present. And which part in the first sentence indicates "present"? 時間. Third, I have also stated in the beginning and the previous post that Japanese tend to translate phonetically from Western languages after WW2 so that the usage of Kanji becomes fewer. It's a political and emotional problem. I've told people from the beginning. But Japanese do have native idea these days, especially on social issues, somehow, they even use kanji. I've discussed before... "M字型社會" - "M 型社會" in nowadays written Chinese. "宅男", "宅女".... Fourth, "vernacular"? These Japanese loanwords can be seen on newspaper and on TV daily.LOL Finally, Don't laugh at the modern Japanese on loanwords. Now, people know that many "Chinese" vocabulary are actually Japanese with the coat of Chinese character. And you show people that many technical terms are actually laowai in Chinese clothing. 
Outlets = 奧特來斯 Do you laugh at this also? In the past, people used xx城.... 
讓北京FUN起來 "Let's Beijing "Fun" up"! At least Japanese can hide with katakana if they put English in a sentence. Chinese languages can't. Edited by jsun on 24 January 2011 at 6:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| null Groupie China Joined 6126 days ago 76 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 27 of 48 27 January 2011 at 2:45am | IP Logged | |||||
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Since when 'Outlets' a technical term in a commercial sense?
Hint: it's a trade mark. In a Chinese scientific world, only a few phonetic translations are allowed. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| null Groupie China Joined 6126 days ago 76 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 28 of 48 27 January 2011 at 3:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Again“讓北京FUN起來”is just a COMMERICAL Slogan, the word 'FUN' is there for effect.
Man, your exmaples are just LAME. Let's go back to the topic, can you remove the Chinese coat of these words: 基酸： Aminosaeren 氨基： Aminoguppe 羧基： Carboxylgruppe 侧链： Seitenketten 非极性氨基酸： apolare Aminosaeuren 极性氨基酸 polare Aminosaeren 芳香族氨基酸： die aromatischen Aminosaeuren 含硫氨基酸： die schwefelhaeltigen Aminosaeuren 二硫键： Disulfidbruecken 羟基： Hydroxylgruppe 巯基： Sulfhydrylgruppe 肽键： Peptidbindung As for social issues, does Japanese have "NATIVE' ideas of "富二代、秒杀、偷菜、裸捐、蜗婚、考奴、 马、浮云" etc? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Leurre Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5426 days ago 219 posts - 372 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Korean, Haitian Creole, SpanishC2 Studies: Japanese | Message 29 of 48 27 January 2011 at 3:46am | IP Logged | |||||
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I always learned, like jsun, that a really large number of Japanese words made their way
into the social sciences in Chinese and Korean too. Though I'm not as informed as you guys, null, is the way you say words like 'philosophy', 'religion', 'society' 'company', 'influence' and others in Chinese taken from the Japanese? (having no knowledge of Chinese, I'm actually asking, not trying to prove a point) See that's what I learned, that many of the words for concepts that did not exist in the exact same form as western concepts were first brought in through Japanese, and through that to Korean and Chinese. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| null Groupie China Joined 6126 days ago 76 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 30 of 48 27 January 2011 at 4:06am | IP Logged | |||||
Chinese did borrow many words from Japanese, mostly like from later Qing and early ROC period.
That's right. But it's not the same case nowdays. After WWII, the Chinese began to learn from the West directly (esp. after Mao's death), thus they had formed a way to adopt western concepts of their own (literal translation). English has become the main resource of Chinese scientific terms. Now it's interesting to see how Japanese and Chinese treat 'web design' terms differently: http://wenku.baidu.com/view/690c3eec0975f46527d3e19f.html 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| null Groupie China Joined 6126 days ago 76 posts - 82 votes Speaks: Mandarin* | Message 31 of 48 27 January 2011 at 4:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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ErR, by looking at the table posted above, you can find that there was no Chinese word for 'servlet' back in 2007, but for now, the web designers in China are very comfortable with the Chinese translation "伺服程序". Usually, the scientific translations are processed by China National Committee for Terms in Sciences and Technologies.
全国科学技术名词审定委员会 http://www.term.gov.cn/ Edited by null on 27 January 2011 at 4:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| jsun Groupie Joined 5086 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes | Message 32 of 48 28 January 2011 at 4:34am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, these Japanese loanwords are Japanese translations of Western ideas. When Japanese loanwords were being imported into China, Chinese in that time just translated foreign stuffs phonetically. For example. "telephone" was originally called "德律風" (dé lǖ fēng). When "電話" from Japan reached China, people liked it better because it looked more Chinese and less alien. Somehow, Japanese guided Chinese on translations. However, in this century, time changes, both Japanese and Chinese love alienation. "Outlets' was originally called "特賣場" (特売場, from Japanese) in Chinese languages and now you see it is called 奧特來斯 so that it sounds more foreign and that means more alluring. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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