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Spanish "v" pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| victor-osorio Diglot Groupie Venezuela Joined 5430 days ago 73 posts - 129 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian | Message 33 of 49 28 March 2010 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well, what makes the difference is not that is before a voiced or an unvoiced consonant but that is after a vowel. Everytime a consonant is after a vowel in the same syllable it can take the voiced character or not. It's just up to the speaker. In phonology we transcribe that as a /K/ (the unvoiced sound in capital letters) but phonetically you transcribe it as a [g] or as a [k], depending on the way the speaker says it. Look for "archifonemas del español" on the Internet for more info. When I said that V is for us another way of pronouncing B, I meant that the sound V that English speakers make when they say, for example, "verb" is a sound we interprete as another way of pronouncing the B sound, but not as another sound. We don't use the V sound but if we use it our Spanish-speakers listeners would interprete it as a way of making the B sound, that is what I meant. Edited by victor-osorio on 28 March 2010 at 9:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5607 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 34 of 49 28 March 2010 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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And by the way, if a native speaker tells you a word and you want to know how it is spelt, you can ask by saying "ve corta o be larga?" Since not only the sounds, but the names of the letters sound the same, that's a good way to distinguish the spelling!
Other names for them: v = uve, ve, ve baja, ve corta b = be, be alta o be larga 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6892 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 35 of 49 29 March 2010 at 12:30am | IP Logged | |||||
Ah, right. Then I'm with you. The actual (English) V-sound (labiodental fricative - lower lip touching the upper teeth) is a sound Spanish speakers don't make because it just isn't in their repertoire. However, when they hear it pronounced by a non-native speaker, it will register as just a slightly funny B-sound in their ears, close enough that they hardly even notice the difference. I'm not sure all Spanish speakers would be able to understand which is which if you started talking to them about "long" and "short" b's, or high and low ones. In Spain the distinction between the two letters is pretty clear as v is uve and b is be. If there is any confusion though, the really fail-safe way is to refer to some well-known word that begins with that letter, such as B - be de Barcelona or V - uve de Valencia. The differences between variants can lead to misunderstandings in this. I once witnessed a Latin American interpreter, who had been brought along by a group of speakers from the US, confusing the hell out of a Spanish audience by translating the well-known brand name BMW as "be eme doble be" (b m double-b, what the eff is that?) instead of "be eme uve" as they were used to. Edited by Hencke on 29 March 2010 at 12:48am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5607 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 36 of 49 29 March 2010 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well maybe not in Spain, but in many countries of Latin America they are both called be / ve. Just asked a Mexican and a Nicaraguan and they apparently ask by saying "be de burro o ve de vaca?"
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| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5451 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 37 of 49 29 March 2010 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In Spain, at least in Catalonia, they are also sometimes called be alta and ve baja, but that could be just because they are called be alta and ve baixa in Catalan. Edited by tractor on 29 March 2010 at 2:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| victor-osorio Diglot Groupie Venezuela Joined 5430 days ago 73 posts - 129 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian | Message 38 of 49 31 March 2010 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, Hencke... I know it might sound terrible but in my country we say be-eme-doblebe.
For us is "doble ve". When we give an Internet address we say "doble ve, doble ve, doble ve" or "triple doble ve". Anyway, the interpreter made a terrible mistake, is very well known that in Spain you should say "uve doble" I read in another discussion that in Colombia and Mexico people say "doble u", while probably in the rest of Latin America people say "doble ve". The Real Academia Española accepts "uve doble, ve doble o doble ve". http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=w Edited by victor-osorio on 31 March 2010 at 4:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6892 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 39 of 49 31 March 2010 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
No, it wasn't terrible at all, I just thought the situation was kind of funny. I'm sure everyone got the meaning in the end, they just had to think a little. It's a case of some things being so familiar that you recognise them without engaging the brain at all, as opposed to some other things where you need to activate a couple of brain cells before it registers. Yes, by rights it should be be "be eme uve doble" in Spain, but everyone is so used to the brand name that the "doble" is dropped. Including it would be totally correct, but would sound a little funny.
AFAIK it is "doble-u" in Puerto-Rican Spanish. I remember hearing it in some recordings of radio stations years ago. Their radio stations have East-Coast-US call signs that all begin with W. So, with the backing of the Real Academia and everything, there is certainly no shame in opting for the "be" pronunciation. What I have always found strange though, is using "ye" instead of "Y griega" for the letter Y. There is probably an interesting story behind it. Does anyone know? How widespread is it? Edited by Hencke on 31 March 2010 at 6:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| victor-osorio Diglot Groupie Venezuela Joined 5430 days ago 73 posts - 129 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Italian | Message 40 of 49 02 April 2010 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I found this article... http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=792112
One guy says that "ye" follows the logic of most other consonants in the alphabet. You say "ce" (cero), "be" (beso), "pe" (peso), "de" (dedo), "te" (tela) and thus you should say "ye", (yeso). It's just his opinion, is not the history of why some people say "ye" and some people say "y griega". I sometimes call it "ye" and sometimes "y griega". Probably the problem is that the letter Y represents two sounds? A vowel sound (like an I) and a consonant sound? I don't know... 1 person has voted this message useful |
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