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Why don’t you write a perfect course? | ||
Tags: Alexander Arguelles | Textbooks | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| Kugel Senior Member United States Joined 6326 days ago 497 posts - 555 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 49 of 78 05 May 2009 at 3:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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Dr. Arugelles, if the courses take a polyglot approach, then how will the languages with mutual intelligibility be handled? For instance, should there be a distinct language program for each Yugoslavian language? Would it be wise to just study, say, Serbian first; and only after achieving a high level of fluency after about 8-9 months, one could then move on to Bosnian and Croatian? Because of your polyglottery, wouldn't it make sense to combine all three into one program? Not only would this be a new exciting approach in the foreign language market, but it would make the journey to polyglottery much easier. Would the difficulty be too great for language programs to teach in groups of these mutual intelligible languages? What group do think would work the best? The one thing that I think could be a hurdle would be the cost of audio, as it would be 3X larger than the typical language program in the lineup if 3 languages were taught instead of just one.
Would this group method work well for languages that would probably never see the light of day in the language learning market? I don't think Danish has a very good chance, but if a language program had Norwegian, Danish and maybe even Swedish, then it could, right? Suggestion about the audio for various language programs: I think language programs should not only provide the CDs, but also have links to a website with the MP3 files. CDs are breakable; and it's not likely the publisher is going to send via mail CDs to fill in whatever gap in the audio lineup of the target language. One could say, well, just import the CDs into MP3 format right away! This is obvious, but sometimes we just can't find the energy or foresight. Dr. Arguelles, are all your CDs backed up onto MP3 format? Another obvious reason would be the fact that the cost of the program could be cut in half. It would just be a large book instead of the plastic container contraption or some gizmo needed to protect the CDs. Also, it would be relatively easy to expand the program by adding new MP3s with PDFs instead of waiting for a 2nd edition with updated material. Barts Edited by Kugel on 06 May 2009 at 7:02pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| !LH@N Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6609 days ago 487 posts - 531 votes Speaks: German, Turkish*, English Studies: Serbo-Croatian, Spanish | Message 50 of 78 05 May 2009 at 10:28am | IP Logged | |||||
But then again, for what it is doing, Pimsleur is way overpriced! If I pay a 1000€ for a ONE language program, than it better make me so fluent that people think I was born and raised in my target language's country. (You have to keep in mind, since I am not living in America, I couldn't get Pimsleur via a library). Regards, Ilhan 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rout Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5500 days ago 326 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish Studies: Hindi | Message 51 of 78 06 May 2009 at 12:34am | IP Logged | |||||
Then I am sorry you're not American. I got mine from the library. Cheers. =) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| 40pancakes Newbie Australia Joined 5593 days ago 38 posts - 41 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, French | Message 52 of 78 11 May 2009 at 8:52am | IP Logged | |||||
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If you're still looking for input, I'd recommend a few things.
First of all, I'll get it out there: I basically follow AJATT and use Heisig etc. so I'm definitely skeptical of language courses generally (also having been bored to death by Pimsleur). 1. A course that takes you from zero level to fluency is preposterous. Getting the best base for learning in and through the target language would be my preferred thing: structured learning up to a point where self directed learning could be done. 2. Focus on the most spoken variety of language eg. だ and る form instead of です and ます form in Japanese. Obviously not neglecting other forms though. 3. An abundance of sentences would be my preference (seeing as I use an SRS and the sentence method) but generally natural interesting native materials with audio and a translation (until it's no longer required) would be good for anyone, no? 4. Some kind of reiteration that you need to live the language! You know, the obvious thing is that immersion means you learn faster. 5. Input --> output. Just about everything that's been said on the topic suggests that output should wait before a HUGE amount of input has been received. Blah. I hope you read this and find it helpful. And if what I said has already been said, I don't care: 7 pages of posts is not worth reading through. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Rout Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5500 days ago 326 posts - 417 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish Studies: Hindi | Message 53 of 78 12 May 2009 at 2:32am | IP Logged | |||||
This is where courses fail. They send you off on a bridge to nowhere without further instruction. It should be said that students do inevitibly find their way but not without trial and error. I think this point was offered as a way to truly set this apart from other methods. Not a course that gives you fluency but a course that builds a bridge to it.
SRS is by far the most boring method there is. I don't understand how you could be critical of more interactive methods? I concur with the Professor that Assimil is still probably the single best overall method available but it could be so much better. The A. Cherel stories were so hilarious and brilliant. I think that's why I like them so much; I'd never really laughed and had a good time with any other courses! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| 40pancakes Newbie Australia Joined 5593 days ago 38 posts - 41 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, French | Message 54 of 78 15 May 2009 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well obviously SRS just takes care of grunt work memorization. Total native material immersion is the stuff that you're remembering.
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| Zygimantas Triglot Newbie United States Joined 5515 days ago 8 posts - 8 votes Speaks: Lithuanian*, Russian, English Studies: Spanish | Message 55 of 78 17 May 2009 at 7:55am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm looking at some Lithuanian courses that are available, and I think it must be annoying for absolute beginners to
start learning about life in school, pets, landscape, "at the barber's" and so on without knowing how to tell one's name. To me it makes sense to introduce vocabulary by relative importance, i.e. start out with things like introducing oneself, asking for directions, buying things, getting around, basic foods, calling on the phone, numbers, time, dates, colors, weather, etc.. I think FSI and Pimsleur try to do something like that. Relatively few words account for most of the spoken language. E.g. I've seen word-frequency dictionaries for Spanish. I'm wondering -- what would be a good language sample to count the word frequency and thus come up with the most essential, universal vocabulary? I wish I had a transcript of what an average person says in a month :). I guess newspaper articles might be a representative sample of language used to describe daily phenomena. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Luai_lashire Diglot Senior Member United States luai-lashire.deviant Joined 5616 days ago 384 posts - 560 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto Studies: Japanese, French | Message 56 of 78 17 May 2009 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Number one for me would be that the vocabulary should be introduced based on its frequency of use in the
native language. I don't need to learn the word "Psychology" in lesson number one, I need to know how to say hello and other things like that. Someone above posted that course that focus on how to buy things, etc. are boring; on the one hand, I agree with that person's point that more literature, etc. should be used, but on the other hand, most people who learn a language are planning to go to that language's country, and they want to be comfortable enough to go into a restaurant and order something right away, or to ask directions when they're lost. So I'd recommend a blending of lessons that focus on real-life situations, and lessons that focus on reading newspapers, literature, etc. Ideally what I'd want to see from a course would be something that has many components which the creative learner can use either in the way they were designed to be used, or in their own way. So, each lesson should have a list of the new vocabulary introduced in it, which the learner could learn via flashcards, word lists, etc- whatever they prefer- and it should have audio with accompanying texts that would allow one to do L/R, shadowing, or whatever they prefer, and so on. Ideally it should be audio entirely in the target language, with an accompanying text that includes a transcript of the audio in the target language and one in your native language, side by side. This means one could use either transcript or the audio separately or in any combination they desire. What most courses don't have that I think would help are a few things: Firstly, I have this book called "Nihongo notes" (the original title is in romaji) that uses a fictional character in fictional situations in Japan to illustrate common mistakes that language speakers make and why they're wrong. For example, one of the first ones is an overview of when you can and can't use the "-san" suffix. I was unaware of the subtleties of meaning implied by this suffix until reading this, and didn't know that it implies you know the person you're referring to personally. This kind of subtlety is often overlooked, and addressing it (perhaps in side notes or separate mini-lessons) would not only set your course apart but would also be very useful. Secondly- and I don't know if you could do this or not- it would be wonderful if your course also came with access to a website that provided further materials. This could include online software lessons, but also a community of other learners and perhaps native speakers, maybe like a blending of lang-8, LiveMocha, and Lernu.net Ideally one would be able to ask questions, practice the language, and access further lessons designed for people with other learning styles and needs. If you are not already familiar with Lernu.net I recommend checking out their lessons. They have a wide variety of different styles of lessons, ranging from games to online novels. In particular, they provide two correspondence courses and two methods based on word frequency. It might be worth copying the method used to make the novel "Gerda Malaperis"- it's a book, but each chapter is accompanied by new vocabulary, and then the vocabulary is repeated within the text at intervals designed to make you remember it best (much like the concept behind an SRS). Then there's the Zagreb Method, which teaches you the most frequent 2000 or so words in order of their frequency, more or less. Either or both could be adapted to your course. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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