|
 |
Assimil a load of rubbish?? | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| mike789 Newbie United States Joined 6137 days ago 39 posts - 51 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 49 of 92 09 April 2009 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
For the US gov't levels see http://web.archive.org/web/20071030055051/www.govtilr.org/IL Rscale2.htm For language proficiency measured by American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages (ACTFL) see http://www.languagetesting.com/assessments_academic.cfm Edited by mike789 on 09 April 2009 at 9:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| LtM Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5670 days ago 130 posts - 223 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 50 of 92 10 April 2009 at 4:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
The guy who used to publish "Fluent French" magazine described fluency as follows:
"It's when there is a direct connection between the idea or mental image you want to express and the tongue and lip movements you need to make to express that idea. In other words, there is no passing through the intellectual side of your mind to do some translating, but rather a direct connection between the idea and the muscles that control your vocal output." This is a pretty rigorous definition of fluency, but it makes sense to me. I know exactly what goes on in my mind when I speak Spanish, for example. Even when other people say that I sound fluent, I know that I'm still sometimes double-checking the subjunctive ending of a verb right before I use it. It's fast enough that there is no lag in my speaking, but as far as I'm concerned, if my brain is doing an occasional rapid-fire conjugation to make sure I've got it right, I'm not yet where I want to be in terms of "fluency". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6887 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 51 of 92 10 April 2009 at 5:29am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Exactly! I previously used Linguaphone courses and had never heard of Assimil until I found this forum some years ago, and from there I managed to get my hands on a copy to see what the fuss was about. Now I own courses in Japanese, Spanish, French, Italian, German, Korean (the poorest imo), and Polish. I find Assimil more interesting than Linguaphone, but both are similar in nature. And certain courses are better from one publisher than the other; for instance, the Korean Assimil course I wouldn't recommend to anyone unless they basically only wanted some extra audio. Honestly, none of the single courses alone have taken me to fluency, but the fact that I can persist with them and not become bored out of my mind as with something like FSI, goes a long way. I can't even survive one unit of FSI in comparison; I would rather eat glass :P But that's just my opinion. As is obvious, different people learn more effectively with different methods. Some will never learn efficiently through Assimil because of it appearing shallow in nature, being largely auditory in delivery, etc. In comparison, FSI courses are the typical textbook - lots of writing and drills you in submission. I'm not discounting FSI, because I do actually use substition drills myself; if not from FSI themselves, then from other sources. But if I were to choose between the two methods I would always choose Assimil/Linguaphone over FSI (or most others; as certain independent books are very good, such as Mowimy po Polsku for Polish.. I also like Genki for Japanese but that needs a lot of audio editing before it gets to a workable stage for me). And while I said, a course alone hasn't taken me to fluency, I can see how it can. If you are taken to a conversational stage you can effectively study through conversation and exposure (almost) alone. I rarely study Korean these days, and mostly just converse, asking for clarification on things when it's needed. I still consider myself nowhere near fluent, but I would say 5 years ago my standard for fluency was a lot lower than it is now.. it's something that is totally subjective in my eyes with the exclusion of "being able to say what you want for your needs". When my needs changed, my idea of fluency changed with it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Maestro Groupie Chile Joined 5681 days ago 40 posts - 40 votes | Message 52 of 92 10 April 2009 at 9:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't need to translate anything nor to consciously think about any endings or conjugations when I speak French, but I don't call myself fluent yet, since I can use only simple French Edited by Maestro on 10 April 2009 at 9:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| icing_death Senior Member United States Joined 5671 days ago 296 posts - 302 votes Speaks: English* | Message 53 of 92 11 April 2009 at 8:50am | IP Logged | ||||||||
You ought to pay attention to who is making the statement. If you read some of fanatic's posts, you might see why many members consider him to be a phenomenal language learner. I interpreted his statement to mean he didn't need any other course work after Assimil. Edited by icing_death on 12 April 2009 at 3:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6485 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 54 of 92 11 April 2009 at 10:33am | IP Logged | ||||||||
If Fanatic is a phenomenal language learner, his personal experience is useless for most of us. We need to learn from the average Joe who has succeeded in his target language. Edited by slucido on 11 April 2009 at 10:34am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Kleberson Diglot Senior Member Great Britain Joined 6228 days ago 166 posts - 168 votes Speaks: English*, Portuguese Studies: Italian, Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 55 of 92 11 April 2009 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Very very true indeed. I'm just going to have to keep experimenting because I'm quite obviously nowhere near phenomenal. All the best! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Kleberson Diglot Senior Member Great Britain Joined 6228 days ago 166 posts - 168 votes Speaks: English*, Portuguese Studies: Italian, Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin | Message 56 of 92 11 April 2009 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I thought FSI allowed a person to get to at least Basic fluency? 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
