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Splog Diglot Senior Member Czech Republic anthonylauder.c Joined 5682 days ago 1062 posts - 3263 votes Speaks: English*, Czech Studies: Mandarin
| Message 17 of 80 10 June 2010 at 10:33am | IP Logged |
apatch3 wrote:
I suspect your Polish simply wasn't good enough, (I'll cite the phrasebook example that's already been given) either that or, when you spoke to the clerk you spoke in an atrocious accent that instantly gave you away to be an English speaker. A great deal of people (myself included) feel extremely awkward when listening to nearly unintelligible accents and would like to avoid hearing them if possible and so if the person I was speaking to and I had another language in common I would switch over almost instantly. Nevertheless in both cases the fault lies not with the clerk who would have replied in Polish if you had spoken better Polish at the time, but with you for expecting people to want to talk to you in their native tongues no matter how much you butcher them. (I do apologize if I sound harsh but in the UK we're experts at butchering foreign languages). |
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I agree wholeheartedly with this.
Imagine that as well as speaking English you had learned to speak close-to-perfect Polish, and worked as a receptionist in a hotel in London.
Now, a Polish tourist came up to you and said "Mes wanting living ... night ... urm ... once"
You explain you speak fluent Polish, but the tourist continues "Teachings me the English ... please to say"
So, you switch to English: "Will that be a single or a double room?"
Tourist: "Urm .. yes please"
Your patience would soon wear out.
So, to practice Polish you need either a willing friend, or a paid tutor, until you reach a level where it isn't painful for native Polish speakers to converse with you.
Edited by Splog on 10 June 2010 at 10:33am
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Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6716 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map
| Message 18 of 80 10 June 2010 at 11:18am | IP Logged |
Personally I prefer just to think in a foreign language until I'm sure I can manage a fairly complicated conversation. For instance I spoke mainly English (or sometimes Danish) to people on Iceland last year, but at the same time I translated my questions and their answers into broken Icelandic - almost like an interpreter, but without having to think in correct sentences. It is not quite the same thing as immersion, but a relevant alternative.
If you do feel that your skills are good enough then the obvious solution would be to continue speaking in the foreign language (though I can see a problem doing this to people whose servicemindedness and good will you cannot afford to lose).
1 person has voted this message useful
| John Smith Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6055 days ago 396 posts - 542 votes Speaks: English*, Czech*, Spanish Studies: German
| Message 19 of 80 10 June 2010 at 4:45pm | IP Logged |
They want to practice speaking English just as much as you want to practice the languages you are learning.
Maybe you could compromise. Even if they reply in English keep using the language you want to use.
Just a thought. You might need to work on improving your pronunciation. It might be hard to understand you.
adrian wrote:
When I try to speak a foreign language I find that often people will just answer back in English. Is there any way
to overcome this other than try to find places where no-one speaks English???
For example, checking in a Polish hotel I start the conversation in Polish and the receptionist says "Maybe in
English?" I reply in Polish that I'd prefer Polish, to which she says "but English is easier."
In Mauritius I tried to speak French wherever possible and got some positive but some negative reactions. Twice
people told me in English that they didn't want to speak French with me. Once "because you might not
understand something" and once "because surely you're more comfortable in English". It appeared they found it
bizarre that an anglophone wanted to speak (non-perfect) French.
Just wondering if anyone has any similar experiences. I feel that I will have to be near fluent level to be accepted
by some people. Why am I bothered? Maybe I shouldn't be. I guess I am a "total immersion" learner and such
interactions can interrupt my progress, especially if I'm in a country for a short time. |
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1 person has voted this message useful
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5347 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian
| Message 20 of 80 11 June 2010 at 12:06am | IP Logged |
I am sure they meant no offence. Here they regularly switch to English as soon as they hear a hint of a foreign accent, and mostly that is out of respect, and a genuine wish to help.
Having said that, I do understand that it is frustrating. I have had the same experience at a couple of occasions, and one of them actually made me really mad. I was in Mallorca, and every shop owner would speak to me in German, although my German was really bad at the time, and I was fluent in Spanish. The problem was that they were so used to the German tourists, that they talked German to every non-Spaniard - and since I apparently have a "German face" they would not stop even when I pointed out to them that our communication in German would be short and painful. I had to throw a tantrum - in very quick Andalusian :-) before they saw the error of their ways. After having repeated the procedure a number of times I just gave up and went to the beach instead. I have a black belt in shopping, but it is supposed to be fun.
5 persons have voted this message useful
| OlafP Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5448 days ago 261 posts - 667 votes Speaks: German*, French, English
| Message 21 of 80 11 June 2010 at 12:48am | IP Logged |
Splog wrote:
So, you switch to English: "Will that be a single or a double room?"
Tourist: "Urm .. yes please"
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From a logical point of view this is a valid and correct answer. Sometimes I do this on purpose for the fun of it. It demonstrates how blurry and imprecise colloquial language is. Once at a ticket office in Scotland:
- Do you want a single or a return ticket?
- Yes.
He grasped it and laughed out. It doesn't work with everyone, though. Some people don't even get it after an explanation and think I'm pulling their leg.
4 persons have voted this message useful
| egill Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5709 days ago 418 posts - 791 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch
| Message 22 of 80 11 June 2010 at 1:08am | IP Logged |
OlafP wrote:
Splog wrote:
So, you switch to English: "Will that be a single or a
double room?"
Tourist: "Urm .. yes please"
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From a logical point of view this is a valid and correct answer. Sometimes I do this on
purpose for the fun of it. It demonstrates how blurry and imprecise colloquial language
is. Once at a ticket office in Scotland:
- Do you want a single or a return ticket?
- Yes.
He grasped it and laughed out. It doesn't work with everyone, though. Some people don't
even get it after an explanation and think I'm pulling their leg. |
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That's the problem with or in English, it's ambiguous whether it's inclusive
or or (or perhaps I should say xor here ;)) exclusive or. However I think in
most cases intonation makes it pretty unambiguous, to say nothing of context.
I know that it was just being said in jest and I certainly do engage in word play
like that from time to time. So I want to be absolutely clear that I mean no offense by
posting the following comic, which this discussion reminds me of:
XKCD
Edited by egill on 11 June 2010 at 1:12am
2 persons have voted this message useful
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jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6922 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map
| Message 23 of 80 11 June 2010 at 1:43am | IP Logged |
I agree with apatch3 and Splog. Kudos for anybody wanting to try their language in a native setting, but some (=many) think they have better pronunciation, prosody, and grammar than they really do. At work (the library) I have sometimes had to ask visitors to write the name of the author(restaurant/street) they're looking for, because their Swedish/English been impossible to decipher.
2 persons have voted this message useful
| Hobbema Senior Member United States Joined 5754 days ago 541 posts - 575 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, French, Dutch
| Message 24 of 80 11 June 2010 at 4:14am | IP Logged |
adrian wrote:
...
Just wondering if anyone has any similar experiences. I feel that I will have to be near fluent level to be accepted
by some people. Why am I bothered? Maybe I shouldn't be. I guess I am a "total immersion" learner and such
interactions can interrupt my progress, especially if I'm in a country for a short time. |
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Yah, I've been embarrassed a few times. My carefully thought out introductory phrase is either shot down by (something like) "We can speak in English"; or, the reply is too rapid for me to understand.
At that point, the only way I can preserve any shred of dignity is to be prepared with the question "Sprecht je engels?" or "Voce fala ingles?" which allows a (more or less, more less than more) graceful exit back into English.
As for me, I'm learning sort of later in life. Stepping out when encountering native speakers takes a little bit of courage and a whole lot of not taking yourself too seriously.
1 person has voted this message useful
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