29 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
Aineko Triglot Senior Member New Zealand Joined 5258 days ago 238 posts - 442 votes Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin
| Message 25 of 29 19 November 2010 at 8:14pm | IP Logged |
nebojats wrote:
I would say that for me, the "naturalistic" approach to language
learning usually entails the following: no translation, little explicit explanation of
grammar (and if so, only in the target language), using the second language
communicatively (always to express ideas to others, never in isolation), addressing
different intelligicences (listening, speaking, reading, writing, total physical
response). |
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Then I must be having an 'artificial' brain, as none of the listed techniques appeal to me (to be more
correct, I would run away screaming from such course). That's probably the
reason why I ditched RS German few years ago. Just a tiring activity that made no real
sense to me (I was able to score good on tests without any real understanding).
If you are going to try Arabic I would honestly recommend to use RS just as a side tool
and get your self one or two more courses and good textbooks (or you might find
yourself very frustrated and disappointed). I think Linguaphone course receives good
reviews from the users here.
Edited by Aineko on 19 November 2010 at 8:15pm
2 persons have voted this message useful
| slymie Tetraglot Groupie China Joined 5038 days ago 81 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English, Macedonian Studies: French, Mandarin, Greek Studies: Shanghainese, Uyghur, Russian
| Message 26 of 29 30 November 2010 at 10:58am | IP Logged |
What I hate about RS is that it just expects you to pick up the grammar without any explaination whatsoever. It's quite intimidating when you feel great you can now point out the "bike" in Russian but then next slide its asking you which is correct.
зеленый велосипед Green Bike
зеленая велосипед Green Bike
зеленых велосипед Green Bike
You pretty much have to stop the program right there and pull out a grammar book and start cramming just to get on with the program... really ruins the 'natural learning method'
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| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5155 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish*
| Message 27 of 29 30 November 2010 at 8:46pm | IP Logged |
slymie wrote:
What I hate about RS is that it just expects you to pick up the grammar without any explaination whatsoever. It's quite intimidating when you feel great you can now point out the "bike" in Russian but then next slide its asking you which is correct.
зеленый велосипед Green Bike
зеленая велосипед Green Bike
зеленых велосипед Green Bike
You pretty much have to stop the program right there and pull out a grammar book and start cramming just to get on with the program... really ruins the 'natural learning method' |
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With a little experience with language learning the above really doesn't become a problem. I played a little with the Hindi program and was able to quickly deduce grammatical gender and how verbs conjugate according to gender as well. I can't wait until I get my Hindi textbook and am able to uncover the whole story. The more I think about it, the more terrific I find Rosetta Stone as reinforcement and supplement. And for very foreign languages such as Japanese or Arabic, it can be downright invaluable.
1 person has voted this message useful
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5821 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh
| Message 28 of 29 02 December 2010 at 8:46pm | IP Logged |
Juаn wrote:
With a little experience with language learning the above really doesn't become a problem. I played a little with the Hindi program and was able to quickly deduce grammatical gender and how verbs conjugate according to gender as well.... |
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... and that is why RS is bad.
RS is supposed to be about not needing experience to learn a language. You're not supposed to have to sit down and work it out, but you did.
It's supposed to be unconscious learning, which just isn't possible or practical. If it's actually conscious learning, then they should be designing it to support conscious learning, because there are much better ways to do conscious learning than this....
1 person has voted this message useful
| strikingstar Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 4983 days ago 292 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Cantonese, Swahili Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written)
| Message 29 of 29 02 December 2010 at 10:52pm | IP Logged |
Sometimes working things out is beneficial. Because it'll lead to you having a better
understanding of how the grammar functions.
But since the OP is expressly asking about Arabic, I have to admit RS is simply lacking
when it comes to Arabic. (I've used RS Spanish 1-3, Arabic 1 & Japanese 1 so I dare say
I've got a fair amount of experience with RS.) RS only works when grammar is
'intuitive'. It can be useful as a supplemental material but to use it as the main
learning material would be foolhardy.
Arabic grammar is already complex enough without any guesswork, let alone when you have
to flounder around in uncertainty. Oftentimes, you'll be left second-guessing yourself.
The following will likely be your thought processes when using RS Arabic.
Did I really hear الشمس ash-shams. It's an l, why isn't it al-shams. That
is an 'l' right?
Or.. I learnt that green = أخضر (akhdar). So why is green bicycle = دراجة خضرة. (daraja
khadra). What is this 'khadra'?
Okay... so I've figured out (read: found out from a book) that adjectives have genders
too. Of course it's more complicated than the likes of amarillo/amarilla but I think I
can manage... but then on the following slide..., wait a minute... why is green chairs
= كراسي خضرة (karaasii akhdar)? Chairs is a masculine term. This doesn't make sense.
Or... I learnt that the past tense, 3rd person, masculine form of the verb 'write' is
كتبو. So 'The students wrote' should = كتبو الطلاب (katabuu at-tullaab). But wrong yet
again!!! It's كتب الطلاب (katab at-tullaab). What's going on?
Basically, you get my point. RS Arabic = too much effort and you cannot possibly use it
in isolation. This isn't really a knock on RS. I've been pleased with the Spanish
software. It's just that Arabic grammar is simply a whole new level of whoop-as*. Also,
everything comes with case endings in the software. E.g. at-taalibu
jayyadun. You're barely going to hear case endings in conversations (besides
Marhaban, Afwan etc.) If you've gotten accustomed to case endings from RS, you're going
to have an uphill battle trying to mentally remove the endings every time you speak,
otherwise you'll just attract laughter. My advice is to just pick up a book and be on
your merry way to a great Arabic adventure.
Edited by strikingstar on 02 December 2010 at 11:08pm
2 persons have voted this message useful
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