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Quantity makes the difference | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Gatsby Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5972 days ago 57 posts - 129 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: Dutch | Message 49 of 122 22 December 2010 at 4:27am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Gosh, Cainntear, I'm one of the least argumentative people you're likely to meet. I do apologize if you somehow took offense to my post, but please don't assume you know me, what I believe or what my reaction to your post may be. Since I assumed this forum is part of the "written register" and not "spontaneous speech," I stand by my correction as being more appropriate in this instance. As a native English speaker (with a degree in English, I might add), 'there's a lot of holes' jars my sensibilities. Again, my only point was that we all make mistakes. I very much admire all of this forum's non-native English speakers/learners who very bravely come here to express themselves in a foreign language. I don't think we should be criticizing their grammar unless they specifically ask for the assistance. 22 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6485 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 50 of 122 22 December 2010 at 7:49am | IP Logged | ||||||||
This is a good point. I have been writing about repetitions and emotion in this thread. Jeff make fun of me because he pointed out that sometimes I wrote about love, but the point it's not about love, but about emotions. For example, my repetitions have been much more effective when I have experienced negative emotions. If someone has laughed at me because I made a spoken or written mistake, my memory about this word or grammar structure is much more stronger. A thick skin is very useful when you learn a foreign language. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5240 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 51 of 122 22 December 2010 at 11:34am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I think much of the debate here can be resolved by using the concept of language register. This says basically that there are different norms or ways of using a language according to the contextual situation. The big distinctions are written-spoken and formal-informal. So, we have a number of combinations: written-formal, written-informal, spoken-formal and spoken-informal. A society may not have a written language, but it probably has a formal register which will be used in ceremonial circumstances or in religious ceremonies. To come back to the debate at hand, we can talk about proficiency relative to register. (I think we should completely avoid the term fluency here which refers to something else). This of course is why we refer to the skills of reading, writing, listening and speaking. Native speakers of a language differ considerably in their mastery of certain registers, particularly the formal register. Some people can even be functionally illiterate. Mastery of the formal register is the product of schooling, especially at the university level. Academic writing, legalese, technical writing are all examples of the written register that have to be acquired through years of schooling. I would just like to add that being exposed to a register through whatever media is certainly a way of learning, but there is nothing like actually using the language, as in a course, to actually learn how to master it. In other words, watching a lot of television programs about lawyers or reading the novels of John Grisham will not make one a master of legalese. Edited by s_allard on 22 December 2010 at 11:35am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6485 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 52 of 122 22 December 2010 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What's better? Classical literature repetition or pulp fiction repetition?
Some people here are into classical literature. OK. Follow your feelings and learn languages with it. Some people here are into pulp fiction literature. Fine. Follow your emotions and go for it. A lot of people here think that listening repetitions are the way to go. If you start reading you will suffer serious damage in your language learning. What's the problem? If your main passion is to read (classical literature or pulp fiction), you will fail if you start with listening things. What's the point? If repetitions (quantity) are the most important factor, you have to use emotion (quality) to drive your repetitions, to keep doing them and to make them more intense and effective. We need to trick ourselves into doing more frequent and intense repetitions. Then, you will have time to improve your grammar, your listening or your reading skills or whatever you need. The main problem average people has with language learning is that they give up. The main goal is to keep doing. The main question is what do you feel like to do? Then, trick yourself or others to do more repetitions (focal, global, listening, reading or whatever) Therefore: repetition (quantity) and emotion (quality). P.S. I have forgotten something important. If you are into grammar and linguistics, study grammar first. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5240 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 53 of 122 22 December 2010 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I certainly agree that quantity and repetition with lots of reading where possible form a basic strategy. I would just add some thoughts on sources of material. A very important point to keep in mind is that although you are reading for pleasure you should choose some of the material for specific purposes. This applies specifically to vocabulary. For example, read a cookbook to develop your vocabulary for kitchen items, names of dishes, ingredients and cooking methods. You could find something similar for the automobile and other means of transportation such as bicycle, airplane, train. Something on health and illnesses could be useful as well.
This is important because you can read a ton of literature and not know the very basic terminology of the table setting. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6485 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 54 of 122 22 December 2010 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree. We are talking about different topics. My commentaries are about something more basic. What's better to learn a language without knowing basic terminology of the table setting or not learning the language at all? Once the train is running we will always have time to improve or to fix problems. We need energy (emotion) to keep the train running (repetition). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5821 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 55 of 122 22 December 2010 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sorry, I kind of got a bit ahead of myself there, didn't I?
Register gets fuzzy on the internet. Most material on the internet and in email has far more in common with colloquial speech than the traditional written register. "There are" is a funny one. I cannot write it without first thinking "there is", but I can hear myself correcting it, and I've given up. It's just completely artificial and I came to the conclusion that there's just no point in continuing. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 5821 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 56 of 122 22 December 2010 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Problem the this is. You understand that, right? Even though it's not English word order, your brain can make sense of it. The eye doesn't read in a straight line. In your native language, even though your eye flicks backwards and forwards, you brain still reads in a straight line, but only because it recognises that the word order makes sense that way from its pre-existing knowledge of the language. With a new language, the brain is free to find its own order to make sense of the words. In the past, I've had to consciously fight against in this tendency. In the written medium, the order in which you compose or read a sentence isn't necessarily the same as the order of words on the page. The correct language can be produced by an incorrect method, and language can be correctly understood by an incorrect method. This can go unnoticed, and if uncorrected will result in an incorrect model of the target language that cannot be applied to speaking or listening. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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