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The ’I Hate Korean’ Thread

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Bao
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5
Joined 3874 days ago

2256 posts - 4045 votes 
Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin

 
 Message 65 of 131
04 July 2011 at 10:39pm | IP Logged 
10k sentences: I tried part of it for Japanese and had to realize that when I used native sentences and did cued recall cards (German->Japanese), I usually ended up with a sentence that was correct but not the register of the original sentence. I couldn't find a way to make it work for me. Maybe it would work with a picture and description of the actual situation? I am not sure; when I think of Japanese sentences in Japanese I remember who said that or imagine who might, when, to whom and in what kind of situation. But I don't get that mental image when I work from a German cue, for obvious reasons. So I decided that cued recall for sentences isn't the right thing for me and Japanese. Of course, it is possible to use sentences for writing exercises or dictation. (Recognition, too, but I don't like that either.)
As Korean speech style relies at least as much on situational context as Japanese does, I don't think cued recall of sentences is a very good method, especially not as standalone. (I'm currently experimenting with the memorization of entire dialogues and short texts, because I find it easier to remember context and speech style that way.)


Regarding drama; I started out Japanese watching drama with friends. After about 6 series, several of which I had watched two or three times I wanted to watch a new series and was too impatient to wait for the subs; so I watched each episode alone and then subbed with my roommates; and then we also started watching other shows raw. In the beginning we had talked about what might be going on and about the clothes and whatever, but quite soon one of us would tell the others to shut up because she wanted to understand what was said. (We went to a class and also studied on our own at the same time.)
It helps that Japanese storytelling in dramas is highly visual, you usually understand what's going on even when you don't understand the details of what's being said. Korean drama rely more on dialogue and pack more information into a single scene, at least that is my impression. But I recently found out what I could follow the story of a series where I waited for the subtitle. Somehow, after a handful of series, the storytelling gets very predictable even in details; especially when the drama you watch are aimed at teens our housewives.
But the series usually are so long that I don't want to rewatch them even when I like them. But just that, re-watching a movie or short series with enthusiam teaches me a lot because the second or third time I see a scene, I know what it going to happen and can pay attention to the way things are said, the acting, facial expression (curse because they overdubbed actor X in a HK movie and it looks way off), have time to repeat curious words or expressions or scribble down things I want to look up later.

emkaos, I use handwriting recognition because I learn better writing by hand. Because my level is still very low, it actually helps me. I know I can learn to type in Korean with a bit of practice - the reason I switched once I had a tablet was because I wanted to write by hand.
Also, could you please explain how exactly you create your audio cards?
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emkaos
Diglot
Newbie
Germany
Joined 3388 days ago

9 posts - 19 votes
Speaks: German*, English
Studies: Korean

 
 Message 66 of 131
05 July 2011 at 1:30am | IP Logged 
Bao, I admire your patience to input everything by hand. That would take me forever. But I can see your reasons.
I didn't try cued recall cards. When I started I was all about the 10k sentences. But I think even with a picture and a description of the actual situation there are far too many possible constructions.
I tried rote learning the dialogues of one textbook and then shadowing them afterwards. But that's one of the many things that I gave up on because its so time consuming. These days I'm doing a lot of language exchange. There are a lot more Koreans at German universities than German who want to learn Korean. So finding partners is really easy if theres a university nearby.

I envy you for your drama sessions with your friends / roommates hehe. I started so many Korean dramas, but once the obvious love story kicks in I loose interest and watch something else. I'm guilty of enjoying the stuff that in Germany RTL2 would broadcast hehe. A story about a girl that tried everybody to convince earth started rotating backwards. Or the Korean version of Supernanny. One time I forced Korean friends to watch one extreme episode of 우리 아이가 달라졌어요 (Supernanny) with me, but they were so ashamed that I had to show them clips from the German version to assure them the German version was just as extreme. hehe
The great thing about learning Korean is that there is so much authentic material on the internet. I watched a lot of really great Korean documentaries lately. And they do a great job dubbing anime. I love the Korean 짱구 (Shin chan). Sometimes after watching one episode I put the audio on my phone and listen to it while shopping. It's one of the few things I enjoy listening to over and over again.

When I create the audio flashcards it usually goes like this:
1. I rewind to the beginning of the sentence I want to add.
2. I take a screenshot and paste it into the anki question.
3. I record the audio using "Audio Hijack Pro" and drag it into anki. I would use the anki record feature, but I have a mac and that never really worked for me.
4. If it's a video with subtitles, like a variety show, movie or one of the two dramas that have Korean subtitles I make a screenshot of the subtitles and paste it into the answer side. If i'm reading the script I just copy the sentence from the script. If I don't have any of these and I really want to get a transcription, I copy the audio into my dropbox and bother a random Korean on the internet, they all are extremely eager to help :)
5. If the sentence has unknown words I copy the word definition from the naver dictionary into the question side two.

I usually watch on my computer and have audio hijack and everything ready anyway, so it's not an big effort to create these.
Sometimes I do the same with podcasts or lessons from textbooks. Then I may google pictures that come to mind instead of a screenshot or use no picture.
I don't get the feeling that the pictures make a huge difference.

With one documentary I tried to transcribe it myself. But that would an hour for just a few minutes. Trying up different possible writings for a word I heared. Looking for cues in the video. It was like a riddle. It probably really helps a lot, but is nothing I really enjoy.


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Bao
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5
Joined 3874 days ago

2256 posts - 4045 votes 
Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin

 
 Message 67 of 131
05 July 2011 at 2:14am | IP Logged 
It doesn't make that much of a difference, and I somehow feel more confident when I write the letters by hand. :3

"Cued recall" is what you get with the standard basic model of Anki. If you enter a target language expression and its meaning, and then have the meaning presented and have to remember the expression, it's cued recall.

Ha, I love superhero series. (Some of my friends love them too but I'm now in a different city with no friends to watch drama with. )= ) And, yeah, I do like eyecandy. That helps a lot. (By the way, I'm too shy to make friends with people or ask for help with transcription etc. :x)

Thanks for the explanation, I'll try it out.
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leosmith
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4658 days ago

2365 posts - 3803 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Tagalog

 
 Message 68 of 131
05 July 2011 at 3:29am | IP Logged 
Bao wrote:
10k sentences: I tried part of it for Japanese and had to realize that when I used native sentences and
did cued recall cards (German->Japanese), I usually ended up with a sentence that was correct but not the register
of the original sentence.

I recommend only doing Kanji > Kana. I think that's what Katz did. Add English to the kana card if you need it.
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Bao
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5
Joined 3874 days ago

2256 posts - 4045 votes 
Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin

 
 Message 69 of 131
05 July 2011 at 4:25am | IP Logged 
leosmith wrote:
Bao wrote:
10k sentences: I tried part of it for Japanese and had to realize that when I used native sentences and did cued recall cards (German->Japanese), I usually ended up with a sentence that was correct but not the register of the original sentence.

I recommend only doing Kanji > Kana. I think that's what Katz did. Add English to the kana card if you need it.

I don't really remember the details but at one point he advised recall cards and at another recognition cards, and of course he started out with English mnemonics for kanji. Khatz also used bilingual sentence cards for Japanese->Chinese (was it both Mandarin and Cantonese? I don't remember).
I believe in the power of forced recall (or rather, I learn to recognize words in context easily so it just doesn't seem worth bothering with) - and I crave having a lot of different examples so that I get a better idea of when it is appropriate to use a word, an expression, a sentence pattern.
Last but not least, I have no idea how you would do Korean-Korean sentence cards. Other than as dictation/listening comprehension, which I think I mentioned as something I might want to try out.

Edited by Bao on 05 July 2011 at 4:26am

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leosmith
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4658 days ago

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Speaks: English*
Studies: Tagalog

 
 Message 70 of 131
05 July 2011 at 4:46am | IP Logged 
Bao wrote:
I have no idea how you would do Korean-Korean sentence cards

You lost me. The method was developed for learning to read Japanese. Why would you use it for anything else?
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Bao
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5
Joined 3874 days ago

2256 posts - 4045 votes 
Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin

 
 Message 71 of 131
05 July 2011 at 5:18am | IP Logged 
leosmith wrote:
Bao wrote:
I have no idea how you would do Korean-Korean sentence cards

You lost me. The method was developed for learning to read Japanese. Why would you use it for anything else?

We're in a thread about Korean. And the author of the method uses it, in an adapted form, to learn other languages. It all makes sense to me, and I'll try to explain it ... later, I guess.
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aerielle
Newbie
Korea, South
korea.calliston
Joined 3440 days ago

36 posts - 42 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: Korean

 
 Message 72 of 131
05 July 2011 at 5:43am | IP Logged 
Quote:
I have no idea how you would do Korean-Korean sentence cards.

I use some Korean-Korean cards in my Anki decks. They're non-audio and mostly take the
form of "Korean sentence-->Korean grammar explanation", "Korean sentence-->Korean def. of
words I don't know" or "Korean sentence with hanja-->Korean sent (no hanja)."


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