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Which variety of Spanish to learn?

  Tags: Spanish
 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages Post Reply
100 messages over 13 pages: 1 2 3 4 57 ... 6 ... 12 13 Next >>
Javi
Senior Member
Spain
Joined 5795 days ago

419 posts - 548 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*

 
 Message 41 of 100
20 February 2012 at 11:58pm | IP Logged 
Quote:
I'd argue the opposite is true: now we understand Latin American Spanish better
that 20
years ago. There are several reasons for that, such as the Internet, the affordability
of traveling to LAm, the 1 million+ of Latin immigrants in Spain, the popularity of
Latin artists, etc.


You're probably too young but 25 years ago or so there was a real boom of Latin American
soap operas in Spain, especially from Venezuela.
1 person has voted this message useful



Javi
Senior Member
Spain
Joined 5795 days ago

419 posts - 548 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*

 
 Message 42 of 100
21 February 2012 at 12:11am | IP Logged 
Quique wrote:
Javi wrote:

Although both "castellano" and "español" are accepted as synonyms, from a purely
linguistic point of view only "español" makes really sense for the modern language
spoken
in both sides of the pond.


That's like saying that "English" doesn't make sense for the language spoken in the USA
or Australia.

As Zenmonkey said, the term "castellano" is also used in LAm.
In Southern Mexico and Guatemala I've also heard "castilla".


As far as I know linguists prefer to leave the term "castellano" to the historical
dialect from which modern Spanish comes, hence my comment. But that's only important
for academics, so as I said before (and you don't seem to have read), in common use
both español and castellano are synonymous and perfectly acceptable.
1 person has voted this message useful



Quique
Diglot
Senior Member
Spain
cronopios.net/Registered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4496 days ago

183 posts - 313 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*, English
Studies: French, German

 
 Message 43 of 100
21 February 2012 at 9:43am | IP Logged 
Javi wrote:
Quote:
I'd argue the opposite is true: now we understand Latin American Spanish better that 20 years ago. There are several reasons for that, such as the Internet, the affordability of traveling to LAm, the 1 million+ of Latin immigrants in Spain, the popularity of Latin artists, etc.


You're probably too young but 25 years ago or so there was a real boom of Latin American
soap operas in Spain, especially from Venezuela.


Sadly I'm not that young. I do remember Cristal, Los ricos también lloran and all that crap.

I also remember that in 1985 there were 700 Ecuadorians holding a Residence Permit, while in 2004 there were about 500,000. And that's only one country.

Besides, soap operas where only watched by housewives, while the current Latin immigration interacts with all social strata.
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Quique
Diglot
Senior Member
Spain
cronopios.net/Registered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4496 days ago

183 posts - 313 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*, English
Studies: French, German

 
 Message 44 of 100
21 February 2012 at 9:59am | IP Logged 
Javi wrote:
Quique wrote:

I beg to disagree. Neither me nor the people I know do any of those things.

Leísmo and laísmo are very common in Madrid, but not in other places (and I find them
extremely annoying!).

I've only noticed the use of the conditional instead of the subjunctive in the Basque
country, not elsewhere.

To sum up, I find those sentences as weird as you do.


Really? That's not my experience but anyway I've checked Wikipedia:

Quote:
La característica morfosintáctica más típica del castellano de algunas zonas es el laísmo.[...]

[...]Sin embargo, en casi todos los dialectos de la antigua Castilla la Vieja también
está generalizado el leísmo de cosa, no admitido por los prescriptivistas.[...]

Sustitución del imperfecto de subjuntivo por el condicional simple, también llamada
condicional vasco ("Si tendría tiempo, iría", en lugar de "Si tuviese/tuviera tiempo,
iría). Se da en casi toda Navarra, Álava, Vizcaya, La Rioja, Burgos, Palencia y en
algunas partes de Cantabria. En estos casos, el hablante no diferencia entre
"hubiera/hubiese" y "habría", pudiendo decir "Si habrías comprado pan, no tendríamos
hambre".



Look here:
Gramática del
dialecto castellano septentrional


Interesting. My area (Aragón) doesn't have any of those deviations (laísmo, leísmo de cosa, condicional vasco...), so it's not mentioned in that article.

I never thought our speech would be closer to the prescriptive standard than that from Castile itself.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Belle700
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5510 days ago

128 posts - 143 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, French

 
 Message 45 of 100
21 February 2012 at 3:23pm | IP Logged 
I think this thread is starting to get just a bit off track. I really do appreciate everyone's help in answering my original question and all the great input I received. Thank you so much to everyone who chimed in. Would anyone be willing to start a new thread and continue the conversation?

Edited by Belle700 on 21 February 2012 at 3:24pm

1 person has voted this message useful



kman543210
Diglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 4478 days ago

26 posts - 73 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French, German

 
 Message 46 of 100
21 February 2012 at 5:57pm | IP Logged 
I may be echoing what others have said, but I think there are 2 main ways that you can choose which variety of Spanish you speak (including accent and vocabulary).

1. What variety may be the most useful for you? For example, if you plan to live or travel in Europe more than Latin America, you may want to learn a variety from Spain. If you'll be working or speaking mostly to Hispanics in the U.S., you may want to learn the Mexican standard variety (especially if you're going to be speaking with a lot of Mexicans). There are a lot of other Hispanic populations in the U.S., so that's another thing to consider or if you're going to be traveling or living in a specific Latin American country.

2. What variety do you like the most? This is completely subjective, but there's nothing wrong with thinking to yourself, "I really like the way Argentine Spanish sounds, so I'm going to speak it that way" or "I really like the pronunciation differences between the c/z sounds in Spain, so I'm going to speak it that way."

Keep in mind that you may change your mind in the future, and this could be difficult for some to change once they've established an accent/variety. I personally spoke Spanish for the first 8 years one way and just decided to change it all of a sudden, and I didn't have any problems doing so (although I don't think I could go back to the other way). I started speaking Spanish with a general Mexican accent/vocabulary, but then one day I just started to change my accent and vocabulary to that which is spoken in northern Spain (various reason including using learning material recorded in Spain as well as me having more of an interest in Spain rather than Latin America).

*as a side note, don't get too bogged down in semantics with naming certain varieties or how to define Castilian Spanish (nomenclature varies in both languages but general definitions of that specific term can be different in both English and Spanish).

Edited by kman543210 on 21 February 2012 at 5:59pm

2 persons have voted this message useful



fiziwig
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4679 days ago

297 posts - 618 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 47 of 100
21 February 2012 at 6:04pm | IP Logged 
Medulin wrote:
fiziwig wrote:

---

Also, most Googled source agree to avoid Puerto Rico, Cuba and Argentina as those accents are closer to the extremes. ---


Why should we avoid Argentinian Spanish?
From my contact with the Spanish people, I must say Argentinian Spanish is one of the rare Latin American accents they don't find annoying or ''cursi'' (=tacky), but pleasant.
---
I think Argentinian Spanish is the most beautiful variant of Spanish.
A mixture of Galician Spanish and Italian (most immigrants came from Galicia and Italy) made it very unique and pleasant.
I could listen it for hours.

There is even a separate language certificate in Argentina:
CELU (Certificado de Español: Lengua y Uso)


Just to set the record straight...I was only quoting what I found when I Googled the subject. Personally, as I have often stated before, Argentinian Spanish is my very favorite accent. I find it very pleasant to listen to and easy to understand.

1 person has voted this message useful



Belle700
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5510 days ago

128 posts - 143 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, French

 
 Message 48 of 100
21 February 2012 at 10:15pm | IP Logged 
kman543210 wrote:
I may be echoing what others have said, but I think there are 2 main ways that you can choose which variety of Spanish you speak (including accent and vocabulary).

1. What variety may be the most useful for you? For example, if you plan to live or travel in Europe more than Latin America, you may want to learn a variety from Spain. If you'll be working or speaking mostly to Hispanics in the U.S., you may want to learn the Mexican standard variety (especially if you're going to be speaking with a lot of Mexicans). There are a lot of other Hispanic populations in the U.S., so that's another thing to consider or if you're going to be traveling or living in a specific Latin American country.

2. What variety do you like the most? This is completely subjective, but there's nothing wrong with thinking to yourself, "I really like the way Argentine Spanish sounds, so I'm going to speak it that way" or "I really like the pronunciation differences between the c/z sounds in Spain, so I'm going to speak it that way."

Keep in mind that you may change your mind in the future, and this could be difficult for some to change once they've established an accent/variety. I personally spoke Spanish for the first 8 years one way and just decided to change it all of a sudden, and I didn't have any problems doing so (although I don't think I could go back to the other way). I started speaking Spanish with a general Mexican accent/vocabulary, but then one day I just started to change my accent and vocabulary to that which is spoken in northern Spain (various reason including using learning material recorded in Spain as well as me having more of an interest in Spain rather than Latin America).

*as a side note, don't get too bogged down in semantics with naming certain varieties or how to define Castilian Spanish (nomenclature varies in both languages but general definitions of that specific term can be different in both English and Spanish).


Thanks, kman - your answer really does help. Very insightful and interesting. :)


1 person has voted this message useful



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