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List of things you cannot do with English

 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 4854 days ago
2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 49 of 60
20 January 2013 at 12:38pm | IP Logged 
HMS wrote:
There are situations that cannot be described in English but can be in other
languages.
"Shadenfreude" for example. A brilliant word!!! There's also another German one I am
unsure of though - "Standlich??" Describing a group of people in a pub discussing
politics??

Everything can be described in English. But maybe not so elegantly as in other languages.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 6954 days ago
4228 posts - 8259 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 50 of 60
20 January 2013 at 4:44pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
Chung wrote:


1)
Chung vidí IronFista "Chung sees Ironfist" (Slovak)
IronFista vidí Chung "Chung sees Ironfist" (Slovak - i.e. Ironfist is seen by Chung -
"It's IronFist whom Chung sees")

2)
IronFist vidí Chunga "Ironfist sees Chung" (Slovak)
Chunga vidí IronFist "Ironfist sees Chung" (Slovak - i.e. Chung is seen by Ironfist -
"It's Chung whom IronFist sees")

I thought the meaning was the opposite: the last component is the rheme. Is Slovak
opposite to Russian here?
Хунга видит Иронфист pronounced with a neutral intonation would mean It is Ironfist who
sees Chung.


No, it's not the opposite. The basic meaning of IronFist vidí Chunga and Chunga vidí IronFist is the same (i.e. the relationship between the two is the same with Chung being the object and Ironfist being the subject) but the voices are different. The first one is active, but the second is understood as a passive.

Хунга видит Иронфист and Chunga vidí Ironfist both register to me as "Chung is seen by Ironfist", "It's Ironfist who sees Chung" or even "It's Chung whom Ironfist sees".
1 person has voted this message useful



Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 4854 days ago
2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 51 of 60
21 January 2013 at 7:18am | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:

Хунга видит Иронфист and Chunga vidí Ironfist both register to me as "Chung
is seen by Ironfist", "It's Ironfist who sees Chung" or even
"It's Chung whom Ironfist sees".

But what is more common: the first meaning or the second?
1 person has voted this message useful



MixedUpCody
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5054 days ago
144 posts - 280 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Mandarin

 
 Message 52 of 60
21 January 2013 at 9:38am | IP Logged 
Everything wrote:
- English doesn't come with an open-minded community like for Esperanto. Esperanto works
like a filter. When you speak English, it also includes racists, extremists, moralists
and so on... Unlike Esperanto speakers who always are open-minded. But that's probably
the only language which works this way.


Thought experiment: what if we forced racists to learn Esperanto? Would be cured? What has two thumbs and just figured out how to successfully reintegrate violent criminals into society by making them open minded using Espermagic? This guy!

EDIT: Accidentally linked quote to wrong author. Sorry, Марк!

Edited by MixedUpCody on 21 January 2013 at 9:58am
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Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 4854 days ago
2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 53 of 60
21 January 2013 at 9:52am | IP Logged 
MixedUpCody wrote:
Марк wrote:
- English doesn't come with an open-minded community
like for Esperanto. Esperanto works
like a filter. When you speak English, it also includes racists, extremists, moralists
and so on... Unlike Esperanto speakers who always are open-minded. But that's probably
the only language which works this way.


Sorry, but I haven't written this.
1 person has voted this message useful



ennime
Tetraglot
Senior Member
South Africa
universityofbrokengl
Joined 5702 days ago
397 posts - 507 votes 
Speaks: English, Dutch*, Esperanto, Afrikaans
Studies: Xhosa, French, Korean, Portuguese, Zulu

 
 Message 54 of 60
21 January 2013 at 9:56am | IP Logged 
MixedUpCody wrote:
Марк wrote:
- English doesn't come with an open-minded community like for Esperanto. Esperanto works
like a filter. When you speak English, it also includes racists, extremists, moralists
and so on... Unlike Esperanto speakers who always are open-minded. But that's probably
the only language which works this way.


Thought experiment: what if we forced racists to learn Esperanto? Would be cured? What has two thumbs and just figured out how to successfully reintegrate violent criminals into society by making them open minded using Espermagic? This guy!


I'm assuming this is sarcasm :p And I do agree that Esperanto interest or ability implies an open mind...


To the topic at hand; one wouldn't be able to create fascinating conlangs due to having only one language to use as example.

Also, one can't procrastinate as effective when only knowing English, seriously if it wasn't for other languages I'd be the Bruce Lee of fundraising (which is my job).

Furthermore, one wouldn't be able to understand the complexity of "respect" in Korean culture, as English has no way of capturing the intriguing system of respectful speech in Korean language.
1 person has voted this message useful



MixedUpCody
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5054 days ago
144 posts - 280 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Mandarin

 
 Message 55 of 60
21 January 2013 at 10:11am | IP Logged 
ennime wrote:
I'm assuming this is sarcasm :p


You assume correctly. I think it would be hard for a monolingual anglophone to understand some of the more strange sliding-scale things that we tend to treat as a set standard. Colors are a good example. Some languages don't have orange, for instance. They would just say dark yellow. What we call dark blue and light blue in English, are considered different colors in languages like Italian and Russian. It makes sense when you consider that color is an infinite spectrum and you have to define somewhat arbitrary cutoff points to consider different colors, but it isn't very intuitive until you have explored another language.
1 person has voted this message useful



LaughingChimp
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 4497 days ago
346 posts - 594 votes 
Speaks: Czech*

 
 Message 56 of 60
21 January 2013 at 11:48am | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
Марк wrote:
Chung wrote:


1)
Chung vidí IronFista "Chung sees Ironfist" (Slovak)
IronFista vidí Chung "Chung sees Ironfist" (Slovak - i.e. Ironfist is seen by Chung -
"It's IronFist whom Chung sees")

2)
IronFist vidí Chunga "Ironfist sees Chung" (Slovak)
Chunga vidí IronFist "Ironfist sees Chung" (Slovak - i.e. Chung is seen by Ironfist -
"It's Chung whom IronFist sees")

I thought the meaning was the opposite: the last component is the rheme. Is Slovak
opposite to Russian here?
Хунга видит Иронфист pronounced with a neutral intonation would mean It is Ironfist who
sees Chung.


No, it's not the opposite. The basic meaning of IronFist vidí Chunga and Chunga vidí IronFist is the same (i.e. the relationship between the two is the same with Chung being the object and Ironfist being the subject) but the voices are different. The first one is active, but the second is understood as a passive.

Хунга видит Иронфист and Chunga vidí Ironfist both register to me as "Chung is seen by Ironfist", "It's Ironfist who sees Chung" or even "It's Chung whom Ironfist sees".


I'm not sure about Slovak, but it's definitely the opposite in Czech. (IronFista vidí Chung = It's Chung who sees IronFist;Chunga vidí IronFist = It's Ironfist who sees Chung) And neither is in passive voice. (but yes, the sentences could be probably better translated to English as passive: Ironfist is seen by Chung; Chung is seen by IronFist)

Edited by LaughingChimp on 21 January 2013 at 11:55am


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