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Has anyone heard of Valenciano? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Guanche Hexaglot Senior Member Spain danielmarin.blogspot Joined 6857 days ago 168 posts - 178 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, GermanC1, RussianB1, French, Japanese Studies: Greek, Mandarin, Arabic (Written) | Message 9 of 36 31 July 2006 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, why not? Valencian and Catalonian are the same language. It's just a matter of taste or political ideology. If you're planning to travel to Valencia, then it's better to call the language "valencia". But if you go to Catalonia instead, you should call it "catala"...
I recommend reading the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencian Here there's a map with the different Catalonian dialects: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Mapa_dial ectal_del_catal%C3%A0.png Edited by Guanche on 31 July 2006 at 1:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lucia Diglot Senior Member Spain Joined 6631 days ago 146 posts - 147 votes Speaks: English, Spanish* Studies: German | Message 10 of 36 31 July 2006 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Valencians say Catalans copied their EU constitution translation just to prove it is the same language.
In the Having some fundaments in linguistics thread Sinfonia wrote : "However,there is no disagreement among modern linguists that all there is are dialects.Some of them, for various geopolitical reasons (and not on any firm linguistic basis),are given the 'pretigious' title of language ." " all dialects are languages in a sense, and all languages are by definition dialects ." 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6514 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 36 31 July 2006 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I saw that Guanche denied that Valencian was even as much as a dialect of Catalan, I decided to have a look for myself at some authentic texts. I then stumbled on the following white book from the Valencian Academy (no less!), which might be interesting in several respects:
Llibre blanc de l'ús del Valencià Point 1: According to this source (p.8) around 26% of the population of the "Comunitat Valenciana" claim that they can write the language well or fairly well. That sounds much more likely than the 50% cited above. About 53% claim that they can speak it well or fairly well. Maybe, - at least it is not outright impossible. Point 2: Even though this is a White Book from the Valencian Academy, and the text only refers to the language in question as Valencian the text is in its written form for all practical purposes undistinguable from a text in 'central' Catalan. This does not mean that there aren't differences between Catalan and Valencian in vocabulary and maybe even grammar on some minor points (as mentioned in the wiki-article), and it certainly doesn't imply that there aren't differences in pronunciation, - I cannot vouch for that. And other sources may have orthographic peculiarities that are not found in this text. But provided that the text in question represents Valencian in its written form then it is out of the question that it could be a 'full' language distinct from Catalan, - at most it could be considered a dialect, provided that one can trust the distinguishing traits mentioned by Wiki. And as long as the 'center of gravity' for this Catalan-Valencian language lies in Barcelona, then it is OK with me to just call it Catalan. Edited by Iversen on 17 August 2006 at 2:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lucia Diglot Senior Member Spain Joined 6631 days ago 146 posts - 147 votes Speaks: English, Spanish* Studies: German | Message 12 of 36 31 July 2006 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Catalans want to call what Valencians speak "Catalan".
Valencians donīt want to call what Catalans speak "Valencian".Valencians want to call what is spoken in Valencia "Valencian ". If itīs the same language why should Catalans choose the name ? If itīs not the same language why do Catalans want it to have the same name as their own language ? Politicians are always fighting over languages in Spain.They do it to distract votersī attention from the real problems Spain has. In spite of all I have said I really admire and like Catalans but not because of the above of course. Edited by Lucia on 31 July 2006 at 4:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6514 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 13 of 36 31 July 2006 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | ||
The language commonly known as Spanish is often called Castellano (Castilian). But isn't it awfully unfair to all those that don't live in Castile to let the Castilians choose the name of the language spoken by several hundreds of millions all over this planet? On the other hand, if I just say Spanish - EspaÃąol- then I risk offending both Catalans and Valencians, not to speak of the Galicians, who are speaking something like Portuguese though spelled more or less like Castellano, - oh sorry, there I slipped into to using that C-word again! I could accommodate the Valencians by referring to the Catalan-Valencian language, but then I would offend people in the Balearics and Andorra and Rousillon (in so far they haven't switched to French). In short, if I want to comment on the languages on the Iberian Peninsula, I have to offend somebody. So I choose to offend the Valencians by speaking of one Catalan language with a couple of dialects, completely disregarding the fact that that Valencia is outside Catalunya. Sorry. Edited by Iversen on 17 August 2006 at 2:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lucia Diglot Senior Member Spain Joined 6631 days ago 146 posts - 147 votes Speaks: English, Spanish* Studies: German | Message 14 of 36 31 July 2006 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Iverson ,you can call the language Valencians speak whatever you want.Just donīt expect them to call their language Catalan.
Iīm Andalusian not Castilian and I couldnīt care less what the languages I speak are called.I wouldnīt mind if Spain had another name or disappeared as a nation,just as long as I still live in a free country. You canīt understand what is happening because you didnīt live here during Francoīs dictatorship. And yes you have to be careful with names in Spain unless you donīt mind hurting peopleīs feelings. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Magnum Bilingual Triglot Retired Moderator Pro Member United States Joined 6928 days ago 359 posts - 353 votes Speaks: English*, Serbian*, French Studies: German Personal Language Map | Message 15 of 36 31 July 2006 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Lucia, I am very interested in your post. I'll admit I don't know very much about Spain's history except there was a violent civil war to overthrow the king. Truth be told, I don't even remember reading why he was overthrown. I would like to understand what is happening over there. If you don't feel comfortable posting it publicly, then you can PM me. I am very interested in history. Here in the USA, we don't get very much modern European history outside of WWI and WWII. Maybe you could tell us from your perspective. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 6826 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 36 31 July 2006 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Magnum, check out the following sites:
Link 1 (English) Link 2 (English) Link 3 (English) Link 4 (Spanish*) Link 5 (Spanish*) * Perhaps your French can help you with these. My grandparents remember most of the Civil War and they (along with my parents) definitely remember the Franco Era. I would also be interested to hear Lucia's thoughts, but I don't think that it is an appropriate discussion for a language learning forum. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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