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We, who manage to focus on ONE language | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Via Diva Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation last.fm/user/viadivaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4043 days ago 1109 posts - 1427 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Swedish, Esperanto, Czech, Greek | Message 17 of 142 21 August 2013 at 11:08am | IP Logged | ||
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casamata, I do like English, it's just hard for me improve, taking into account that I've totally (as much as I can) surrounded myself with English. I just feel that there is something that stopping me. It could've been grammar, for example. Right now I'm doing some translating and finding that sometimes I understand things but can't translate it into Russian - no discovery here, though.
Speaking about expectations - I want to be fluent and to be able to understand other people. I want to move in English-speaking country (well, rather dreamimg about it). But there is so many other possibilities, and German is only one of them. I like the language, the pronuncation, its sounding - so why not? Well, maybe I'm less focused on English, but I don't think so. The fact is - I'm learning two languages instead of concentrating on one. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4516 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 18 of 142 21 August 2013 at 11:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Some things just translate terribly into Russian. "Now I realise what happened" can be
rendered as теперь я понял(а), что случилось - but it doesn't render the fact that to realise and to understand are not exactly the same thing (understanding is general). You could say дошло до меня, I guess. But does that render the meaning exactly? Who knows. Translation is different from using skills in context. Translation is something I use as a crutch but when I speak Russian it is an automatised process. I do not translate word- for-word. That my automatisms can be wrong is self-evident, I hope. If you understand the tacit implications from the context, этого уже хватит. Edited by tarvos on 21 August 2013 at 12:28pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4656 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 19 of 142 21 August 2013 at 11:32am | IP Logged | ||
This - especially the bolded part. Iguanamon mentioned my case already. I do agree, in theory, that focusing on one language would be better for me than studying more at the same time. And if I were in the right situation, I would do that. However, I've learned that my brain can only take so much Japanese in a day. I cannot fill up all of my free time with Japanese; otherwise, I get sick of it after a while and burn out. (Perhaps it's because I live in Japan and am surrounded by Japanese all the time.) I've found out that one to 1 1/2 hours a day of Japanese study is great for me. So what do I do with the rest of my free time? Something in English? Why not study another language? That is more productive. So I study Portuguese as well. And studying Portuguese along with Japanese has had some nice side benefits as well. I'm trying to move from intermediate Japanese to advanced, and it is hard to measure progress; I hear native Japanese all around me, and when I measure myself against that, it feels like I'm not moving forward. That takes the joy out of studying Japanese. Studying Portuguese reminds me how much fun language study can be. Also, I can easily see the progress I'm making in Portuguese, and that encourages me to keep going in Japanese. Sure, if I could study Japanese all day, I would just focus on Japanese. But for my situation, studying two languages has been a boon. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Via Diva Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation last.fm/user/viadivaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4043 days ago 1109 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Swedish, Esperanto, Czech, Greek | Message 20 of 142 21 August 2013 at 11:35am | IP Logged | ||
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tarvos, беда в том, что I'm doing that translation for one very popular blog, and I have to do it correctly :)
P.S. fixed: этого уже хватает (хватит) P.S. Now I realise what happened = Теперь я осознал, что произошло (as an option) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5016 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 21 of 142 21 August 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged | ||
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There seem to be two different debates going on here: whether it's better to be great at one or a few languages or decent at lots, and whether a beginner should study several languages at once.
For the first point, I'd rather be good at a few than OK at lots. But that's just my preference, and one can make a very good argument for the opposite, especially when you consider that going from OK to good is often much more work than going from nothing to OK. If you're going to travel to a variety of countries, for example, being able to get by in three or four languages is probably more useful than investing the same amount of time in being an expert in one. It all depends on your goals and interests. For the second, however, I think it's a bit crazy to add in a third language before reaching a good level in your second, for the reasons iguanamon wrote. Although "a good level" is again subjective and depends on your goals. I'm glad that I waited until my French was reasonably good before starting Italian, which took a lot of self-control, but I'm very glad I did and sometimes I think I should have waited even longer. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6512 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 142 21 August 2013 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Those who really manages to focus on ONE language are the poor hapless monoglots (including some nobel prize winners) who never learn any other language than their own and never even discover what they have missed. Here in Denmark it is almost impossible not at least to learn English too, but there the game stops for many of us. Is that something to laud or terribly sad? I think it is sad because I know how much benefit and pleasure I have had from my other languages. On the other hand they might think it is sad that I don't sit in front of the TV and watch sports or political stuff or soaps or X factor or whatever, but I want to concentrate on those things I find worthwhile, and if people choose to exclude foreign languages from their universe then that's their choice, not mine.
One of the things I find wortwhile is knowing MANY languages - not because of the number, but because of the different perspectives on the world I get through another set of coloured Mezzofanti-glasses and because each language actually is interesting in its own right. Telling me to concentrate on one language would be like telling me to concentrate on my right arm and then cut my legs off. Or kick Vivaldi, Bruckner and Beethoven out until I have heard absolutely everything Mozart has written. The point where some degree of limitation becomes necessary is when you study so many languages that you can't ever learn to do anything in any of them. But even though I have languages on that stage the big question is whether it really affects my best languages (Danish and English) that I spend time on other languages, and here the simple answer is "no". When I read a book or magazine in Italian or watches a TV program in French it takes time which I could have used on one more book or magazine in Danish or one more TV program in English. And so what? I already cover those languages well enough to keep a reasonably high level. An hour more or less doesn't change anything. On the other hand a 'blunt knife' like my Romanian could benefit from an hour or two more per week, and I could in principle earn that extra hour by dropping Irish. But I have time enough to maintain my passive Romanian at a level where I can read just about all texts I see, I can write it tolerably well and I have only used it for conversation for maybe two or three minutes here in 2013 and about the same in 2012 (at the language congress in Budapest), and I survived - though not with flying colours. Should I sacrifice all the pleasure I have had from learning Irish just to perform slightly better in Romanian in the hypothetical case that I get another opportunity to speak it later this year? I know from experience that I can switch to Romanian and only speak that language if I'm surrounded by Romanians, so my level is sufficient for travelling, and I regular read Romanian through the internet. But I really can't see the purpose of polishing my 'permanent' oral skills in Romanian - the only ones that really need it - if the price is that I have to sacrifice two or three other languages completely. So the only case where I do recommend sticking to one language is at the stage where you can't use a certain language for anything, and it takes all your efforts and time to push it to the level where you at least can read a book. In practice I don't even follow that rule because I'm currently pushing Irish and Polish rather hard, but I spend more time on this hobby than most other language learners with a full time job can do, and have also learnt some things about language learning which I didn't know earlier in my career. But the rule about one language for intensive study at any one time is still the one that I would follow if I had less time or more distractions. Edited by Iversen on 21 August 2013 at 12:48pm 14 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4516 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 23 of 142 21 August 2013 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | ||
I meant "it will be enough", so хватит was intentional :) I used that example because I saw it in the dub of a movie. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JC_Identity Triglot Groupie Sweden thelawofidentity.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3930 days ago 53 posts - 108 votes Speaks: Swedish, Serbo-Croatian*, English | Message 24 of 142 21 August 2013 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think we have a very interesting discussion here and I appreciate that so many people are sharing their views. I would like to make a few comments on what has been said.
- I think that someone mentioned a valid point on schools that impose more than one language at a time. I agree, and I think this is unfortunate. - I think that what is important to acknowledge in this discussion is of course that different people have different goals in regards to what level they want to reach in a particular language. Some want to be fluent while some are satisfied with staying on the beginner or intermediate level. - I must say that I liked patrickwilken's comparison between language learning and learning to play an instrument. Indeed I think that more people would be more critical when it comes to someone attempting to learn several instruments at the same time than they would about someone learning several languages simultaneously. - I would also say that I respect people on this forum that want and dare to move languages to their speaks list. I think also it would be interesting to know why so many are afraid of it. - I am not sure if Iversen and I are misunderstanding each other. But to clarify my point I would like to say that I am not saying that you should only focus on one language for the rest of your life, nor am I saying that all people have the goal to speak fluently, although I do. That said, I am convinced that whatever your goal is with a particular language, you will reach it faster if you only focus on that language until you reached it. This is simple logic. This is of course if you want to reach your goal faster. - I can get some people here that mention that they can only study one language for so long on a daily basis before they need to do something else. But here instead of changing the language I think it is equally good to change your approach to that one language. If you have been doing some language course, perhaps you could listen to some music in the language etc. But also I think that the threshold here comes from people engaging in "study", instead of enjoying the process. I think the enjoyment comes from putting more focus on the content than the language itself, which is a tool. I know once I do this I don't really sense this threshold. - I would also really like to thank Mooby for sharing that great Khatzumoto quote. It is deep! I completely agree with Mooby, that tempting wanderlusting is always around the corner especially when you seem to encounter obstacles, but you have to do the harder thing and say no to it, and keep your focus. - Since Mooby posted an inpiring qoute, I do like to do the same. This is a quote by one of my heroes, Andrew Carnegie, (not a language learner but at one time the richest man in the world): "“Don’t put all your eggs in one basket,” is all wrong. I tell you “put all your eggs in one basket, and then watch the basket.” Look round you and take notice; men who do that do not often fail. It is easy to watch and carry the one basket. It is trying to carry too many baskets that breaks most of the eggs in this country. He who carries three baskets must put one on his head, which is apt to tumble and trip him up." Again thanks to all that have shared their views here! Edited by JC_Identity on 21 August 2013 at 1:32pm 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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