|
 |
Most recent features | ||
Tags: Neologisms | Syntax | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5016 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 33 of 41 30 December 2013 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
But not infinitely so. "Spelt" does look like an irregular exception, but that's because people apply the rule: 1. add -ed to form past tense (and change pronunciation according to its environment), and not 2. add -t when verb lemma ends in an unvoiced consonant (as well as, in this case, a liquid). If we use the latter rule, spelt is regular. And the latter rule, which would result in a tighter sound to spelling ratio, would be, I maintain, simpler overall. Of course, as was pointed out above, this is a bad example, since there are two different pronunciations of the past tense of spell. Kiss would be a better example. Addendum: Since "spell" is a bad example, in my post below I've replaced it with "kiss." Edited by ScottScheule on 30 December 2013 at 8:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4495 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 34 of 41 30 December 2013 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Actually l is a voiced sound... would make more sense to have a d there.
You could use the same rule as in Dutch, where verbs stems ending in a voiceless consonant take t and voiced ones take d (given that /g/ is considered voiced). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5016 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 35 of 41 30 December 2013 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Tarvos,
Right, see the parenthetical following that sentence. -d is added, but, as other posters have pointed out, spelt is an accepted variant. Regardless, just to remove any confusion, let me replace the post with a better example: "Kist" does look like an irregular exception, but that's because people apply the rule: 1. add -ed to form past tense (and change pronunciation according to its environment), and not 2. add -t when verb lemma ends in an unvoiced consonant. If we use the latter rule, kist is regular. And the latter rule, which would result in a tighter sound to spelling ratio, would be, I maintain, simpler overall. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4495 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 36 of 41 30 December 2013 at 9:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
It's not uncommon to devoice final consonants, even if you write d in Dutch at the end
"betaald" (paid) you still pronounce "betaalt". It doesn't surprise me that it's a variant at all. I agree with lemma 2. That's the Dutch rule. Unfortunately Dutch people seem not to have grasped that one either. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5016 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 37 of 41 30 December 2013 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
It's one of the smaller problems regarding English spelling, I agree. But note the final consonant isn't being devoiced as a rule--rather it's assimilating the voiced/non-voiced quality of the consonant preceding it. This is different than German, where the last consonant is devoiced, no matter what it's preceding consonant is.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4495 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 38 of 41 30 December 2013 at 10:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
L is voiced, so then there should be a d. That is my point exactly. Yes, in German the final consonant is always devoiced (and in Dutch too for that matter), but Dutch also assimilates consonants (even across word boundaries). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ScottScheule Diglot Senior Member United States scheule.blogspot.com Joined 5016 days ago 645 posts - 1176 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Latin, Hungarian, Biblical Hebrew, Old English, Russian, Swedish, German, Italian, French | Message 39 of 41 30 December 2013 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, but you say it's pronounced betaalt, no, with a devoiced sound? I'm saying that's a different phenomenon than English, where, say, "spelled" is pronounced not with a [t], but [d]. Edited by ScottScheule on 30 December 2013 at 10:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4495 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 40 of 41 30 December 2013 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
|
Yes, but in the verb form betaalde it IS pronounced with a d. Edited by tarvos on 30 December 2013 at 11:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
