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Article: Students fall short on Vocabulary

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shk00design
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Canada
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Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin
Studies: French

 
 Message 17 of 319
06 April 2014 at 5:28pm | IP Logged 
In a place like Hong Kong, before the 1990s we had an education system in Cantonese with English
classes in between. Most people don't get to even the basic conversation level until they reached the
senior years in high school. After the 1997 handover to China, the schools added Mandarin into the
curriculum as the language of the Motherland. A majority of the people there would talk among
themselves in Cantonese. Their fluency in either English or Mandarin would be barely understandable.

I know a mother from Hong Kong who sent his son to a summer camp in Canada for 2 years. He seemed
to have no trouble getting along with the other kids. Without the constant exposure to a language,
learning in class for 2h/day is not sufficient.

Edited by shk00design on 06 April 2014 at 5:29pm

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luke
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 Message 18 of 319
06 April 2014 at 8:47pm | IP Logged 
Retinend wrote:
the only measure of success is whether you get the top grades. If you get them, then you presume that you don't need to work harder - in fact you get a nice present from Mum and Dad for such good marks.


It's that way all over as was clearly and eloquently evinced in the Petit Nicholas story "Le vélo".

Edited by luke on 06 April 2014 at 8:53pm

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Jeffers
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 Message 19 of 319
06 April 2014 at 9:00pm | IP Logged 
luke wrote:
Retinend wrote:
the only measure of success is whether you get the top grades. If you get them, then you presume that you don't need to work harder - in fact you get a nice present from Mum and Dad for such good marks.


It's that way all over as was clearly and eloquently evinced in the Petit Nicholas story "Le vélo".


Yes, that was great. He got in the top ten one week when all students but nine were off... and he got 10th place!
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Jeffers
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 Message 20 of 319
06 April 2014 at 9:07pm | IP Logged 
Ari wrote:
I studied French for six years in Sweden, and when finished, I could not use the past tense (any of them) and during an exam in my fifth (I think) year I forgot whether I should be "ma sœur" or "mon sœur" (because I'm male). I guessed incorrectly.

I finished with a good grade in French.

The problem in Sweden is that it's obligatory to learn a third language. This means the majority of students aren't interested, and since it's impossible to teach a language to people not interested in learning, the bar has to be set ridiculously low in order to not fail 95% of the class. With such a low bar and uninterested students, nobody learns anything.


We can talk about how bad language learning is in other countries, but the study actually compares them. For students at B2 level, EFL learners in Greece and Hungary have about twice the vocabulary of French learners in England. Okay, you can argue that these EFL students probably watch a lot of TV and listen to a lot of music in English. But as Tastyonions pointed out, English learners of French have a pretty good headstart.

Ari's example sounds pretty familiar. On the other hand, he's writing about a third language! (Ari, what's the normal second language in Sweden?)
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cpnlsn88
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Groupie
United Kingdom
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Speaks: English*, German, French
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 Message 21 of 319
06 April 2014 at 11:06pm | IP Logged 
Interesting article. Chimes with the fact that vocabulary acquisition is very hard in a foreign language in any case.

I can imagine that enough vocabulary is learned to execute some fairly predictable dialogues and that's that.

It poses a genuine problem for someone wanting either to go on to University study (and therefore at a minimum read literature and daily discourse in the target language) as well as any one who wants to go on to any level of linguistic proficiency.

One can react at two levels. In one level the rate of language acquisition should be roughly doubled, but at a continuous rate. This in turn can lead to faster progression in reading and to a virtuous circle. This would mean a redesign of the courses of learning in GCSE and A level (ages 15, 16 and 17, 18 respectively) as well as an emphasis on vocab acquisition in the first year of University.

Secondly points up that in order for language to become usable a self motivated learner has to find ways of continually learning larger amounts of vocabulary than one may generally think necessary (it may be other countries are doing this to some extent).

I blame some ideological influences such as the emphasis on 'natural learning' and communicative approaches. I am not against communicative approaches but the incline on vocab is simply a lot steeper than most people imagine, hence why progress is somewhat limited in may cases.

Looking back on my childhood learning I definitely think that I would have benefited from learning more vocab and in a more systematic way, so I agree with this article.


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Radioclare
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 Message 22 of 319
06 April 2014 at 11:34pm | IP Logged 
g-bod wrote:
For anyone genuinely interested in what UK A level students are expected to be able to do in French, an exam
specification and sample papers are available online from the
Edexcel exam board


I did a French GCSE with Edexcel about 13 years ago, got an A* and would struggle to order a cup of coffee in France. At the end of
five years' study, I probably had a vocabulary of a few hundred words, consisting mainly of food, clothing, school subjects and items
in my pencil case. When I started teaching myself German aged 18, the first thing I had to learn was what a verb was.

They may be better now, but the GCSE exams I took were a joke. We did coursework instead of a written exam; this consisted of a few
paragraphs describing a holiday we had been on which we wrote in advance at home, had marked and corrected by a teacher, then
memorised and reproduced under exam conditions. The oral exam was similar in that we knew the questions in advance, had written out
the answers, memorised the corrected versions and practised repeating them like parrots. I can still remember some of them now,
though I don't know what all the words mean. For the reading and listening exams we were allowed to use a dictionary, the answers
involved ticking boxes or writing single words in French (ie. not whole sentences), and some of the questions specified that they
should be answered in English.

I'm sure A Level was more rigorous, but the results of the study don't surprise me at all and I guess this is a contributing factor
to so many language departments at UK universities being forced to contemplate closure.
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stelingo
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 Message 23 of 319
06 April 2014 at 11:58pm | IP Logged 
When I did my university degree in French and Hispanic studies (20 years ago now), we
had lectures in the target language from the first year and were reading literature in
the TL. (In fact we were reading lit in TL at A level, Moliere was one)During the year
abroad we had to write a dissertation in the TL and produce a lengthy translation of a
technical article (around 2000 words, can't remember exactly) On returning from the
year abroad we did liaison interpreting, dealing with political and social topics. It
was also possible to do a course in simultaneous interpreting. During the year abroad
many of us did work placements, and everybody returned fluent (although not necessarily
native like)

I broadly agree with the report's findings on GCSE and A level, but am sceptical about
their findings at degree level. Things may have been dumbed down a little since my time
at uni, but I don't believe it has gotten as bad as is portrayed in the report. I think
the UK compares favourably to other countries at university level, especially given the
(usually) compulsory year abroad. I have a Spanish colleague who did a degree in
English in Spain. She told me she only ever had one oral exam during her course, spent
no time in England and could barely put a sentence together by the end of her studies.
It was only after having lived here awhile after graduating that she became fluent.   
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luke
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 Message 24 of 319
07 April 2014 at 12:06am | IP Logged 
Jeffers wrote:
luke wrote:
Retinend wrote:
the only measure of success is whether you get the top grades. If you get them, then you presume that you don't need to work harder - in fact you get a nice present from Mum and Dad for such good marks.


It's that way all over as was clearly and eloquently evinced in the Petit Nicholas story "Le vélo".


Yes, that was great. He got in the top ten one week when all students but nine were off... and he got 10th place!


And his father was all, "oh my god, oh my god", astonished at his good standing on the test. Except for Clotaire, but he already has a bike.


1 person has voted this message useful



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