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Has anyone heard of Valenciano? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 33 of 36 13 September 2006 at 8:53am | IP Logged | |||||
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I have now returned from Valencia, and of course I took the opportunity to read and listen to all the Valencian I could get hold of. There are minor spelling differences (such as u in for instance "meua" (my), where 'central' Catalan uses v). There are also some differences in the vocabulary, most notably the word "eixida" for exit. And there are of course differences in the pronounciation (less deep u'like "l"'s, final -r pronounced etc.), but all this means so little that I could come with my modest background in 'central' Catalan and immediately understand both written and spoken Valenciano. So I now know that Valenciano is not a language besides Catalan, but a dialect of that language. The Valencians may call that language Valenciano, but with all due respect for the immense work the Valencian local government does on behalf of 'its' language, I personally will continue just to speak about the "Catalan" language. I originally commented on the use or lack of use of Valencian in this thread , but seeing that the subject is very Valenciano-specific I have since moved it here (see below).
Edited by Iversen on 13 September 2006 at 11:54am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6896 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 34 of 36 13 September 2006 at 10:15am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, instead of "sortida" which you see on the motorways in Catalonia. Also "hui" for today, where "avui" is used in Barcelona, and maybe a handful other ones.
I couldn't agree more. I too have a very modest level of knowledge of Catalan, but I did dabble in it a little and I have moved around a bit in areas where both variants are spoken, you see them around you on signs, read them in newspapers and hear them on the radio, and even this small amount of exposure is quite sufficient to form an opinion. The touting of Valencian as a separate "language" is clearly a political issue more than anything. The case for it on linguistical grounds seems extremely thin. My impression is that they are not much further apart than US and UK English, if that. You could make a similar list of differences there: -ize instead of -ise, rhotic/non-rhotic, elevator/lift, subway/underground, fall/autumn etc. For all I know the US/UK comparison list might easily end up being longer than the Valencian/Catalan one. Edited by Hencke on 13 September 2006 at 10:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6705 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 35 of 36 13 September 2006 at 11:46am | IP Logged | |||||
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(moved from the thread about travelling)
I have now returned from my whirlwind trip to the fair province of Valencia, Spain, and these are my comments: It is clear that the local government is very committed to the 'Valenciano' project. I landed in Alicante, and even here - in city where I didn't once hear any living person say even one word in Valenciano - all officiel texts were bilingual Castellano / Valenciano. In Valencia the situation was not quite as bleak as indicated by Echoes (in the thread about travelling). When I first got tuned in to listen for Valencian words and intonations I did catch quite a few Valencian-speaking people. For instance I once passed a balcony where a man stood with with a piece of furniture and discussed with another down at street level how to move it. Another time I walked behind an elderly Valencian-speaking lady with a rollator in the company of a younger woman, - I had lots of time to listen because I couldn't move around them. Nevertheless the overwhelming majority of utterances I heard in the streets were in Castellano. There was one more troubling fact: there were practically no newspapers in Valencian (unlike the situation in Barcelona), - I only saw Avui once, and that's a newspaper from Barcelona. If people aren't willing to spend a dime on a newspaper in the local 'language' then they don't take it seriously, period. Or in other words: they treat it as just a dialect, while they resort to a 'real' language for studying and reading. And here the ironic fact is that they dismiss the very close relationship to the Catalan language as spoken by the rivals to the North, and instead they opt for the much more distant cousin Castellano. I also made a short stop in the mountain town Xàtiva (pronounced Sjativa with stressed Sja), where it was much easier to hear spoken Valenciano. However I didn't get into a real conversation in Valenciano (or Catalan for that matter) with anybody before the very last train trip back to Alicante. However it went well, and I understood more or less everything written and most of the spoken Valenciano on TV and in the museums. At least I now know for a fact that even spoken Valencian is exceedingly close to the thing called Catalan. Edited by Iversen on 13 September 2006 at 11:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tuffy Triglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 7036 days ago 1394 posts - 1412 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, German Studies: Spanish | Message 36 of 36 14 September 2006 at 10:09am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, my friend from Spain (Valencia) corrected me when I asked her if she spoke Catelan.
She said it was Valenciano. (Before that I hadn't heard of it.) Edited by tuffy on 14 September 2006 at 10:10am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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