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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5281 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes  Studies: Italian | Message 49 of 80 15 June 2010 at 11:44am | IP Logged | ||
That is a very fair point, and I am sure it is a view that many people will agree with. However there are some guys who are prepared to 'fight back', and give as good as they get. (And these are often the folks who tend to get ahead in all areas of life - maybe including language learning.) Edited by Romanist on 15 June 2010 at 11:51am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 51 of 80 15 June 2010 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | ||
There wouldn't be any point in switching to Danish. The choice stands between the local language and English, and my argument would be that it would be silly if both parts spoke a foreign language, when one part actually could have the luxury of speaking the local language and the other part (me) was also would prefer that language. However there might be situations where I would choose English, precisely because I then would deny the other part the advantage of being more fluent than me. For instance I visited Luanda, Moçambique, a few years ago. The offical language there is Portuguese. So I spoke of course Portuguese all the time .. except when I got a phone call to my room the second day, asking when I intended to leave to room. Actually I had prepaid four nights and could document it, including the fact that the money had reached the hotel. So I switched to English until the management had accepted that I had the right to stay the last two days .. and then I switched promptly back to Portuguese. I might also speak English to local people who clearly needed opportunities to speak that language, - but hotel personnel normally have enough guests who are happy to speak English, so they have no right to use me as a guinea pig. And of course I speak English to Anglophone persons whereever I meet them, - but generally I try to avoid speaking to other tourists when I travel. Edited by Iversen on 15 June 2010 at 8:33pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| stout Senior Member Ireland Joined 5370 days ago 108 posts - 140 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 52 of 80 15 June 2010 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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Myself being an English-speaker,having English as my mother tongue is somewhat of a
double-edged sword.When I have visited German-speaking Switzerland,The Netherlands and Eastern Europe then I have no problems I can speak English with little or no problem. When it comes to France that's a different story.When I speak French to a native they quite often switch to English,sometimes it rudeness,sometimes it's being helpful depending on that particular person.However myself I would rarely speak English in France with the natives. I have heard that even Dutch and Scandinavians who have visited France who attempt to speak French with the natives experience the same problems as I do probably because the natives know that nearly all Scandinavian and Dutch people are near-fluent in English. I was in French-speaking Switzerland for a holiday a few years back.I decided to make out that I was Dutch and not someone from an English-speaking country.Unfortunately that did not work for me.Probably because the natives know that most Dutch people can speak near-fluent English. Perhaps the next time I go to a French-speaking country I will try make out that I am Polish or Estonian or Slovenian or Croatian.Then hopefully the French-speakers will not switch to English. So I will learn a few phrases in one those Eastern European languages. Edited by stout on 15 June 2010 at 11:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| delectric Diglot Senior Member China Joined 7180 days ago 608 posts - 733 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: German | Message 53 of 80 16 June 2010 at 8:09am | IP Logged | ||
Though for you using English gives you and the other speaker the luxury of you both using a foreign language. I think the problem is that when you say I only speak non English language 'x' and your native language 'y'. Usually the speaker of language 'y' doesn't believe you! I've pretended to be German and the Chinese speakers will of course still assume I speak English. Lets face it, it's true we do all speak English and usually it's the first foreign language everyone learns, unless they are brought up bilingual. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5281 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 54 of 80 16 June 2010 at 10:32am | IP Logged | ||
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This is slightly off-topic, but I wonder whether it's true that native speakers of minority languages (especially endangered ones) are somewhat less likely to be arrogant towards foreigners who try to speak their language?
I've heard that Icelanders, for example, are often extremely pleased to think someone would actually take the time to try and learn Icelandic! Likewise Afrikaaners in South Africa are - so I'm told - often just blown away that someone would learn Afrikaans! I also have a friend in Germany who lived for 2 years in Norway: she told me that most of the folks there seemed very pleased to think a German person would go to the effort of learning their language, seeing that all Norwegians speak English (and, in many cases, German too!) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 55 of 80 16 June 2010 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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This rather silly discussion has come up many times on this forum.
I don't understand what the big problem is; Most regular people prefer to use whatever language the people involved can best understand!!! Depending on whether two or more people are involved in the conversation, and the varying levels of language skills that the different people concerned possess, one language emerges as the language that it makes the most sense to speak in. It's like some kind of equation and after a a few seconds or minutes it usually becomes clear what language is best to use in a group or a 1-1 discussion. If people switch languages it is usually becauase they believe that the conversation will run smother in another language. If this does not suit you, then you need to get better at the language that you prefer to be speaking. What's the big deal about this -- Why don't you like speaking your own language? Personally I often feel hugely relieved when people switch to English, thereby taking the pressure off me trying to speak in some language that I do not feel confident in. But I try to use the local language with local people (if if I know it suffiently..) because it feels rude to pressure strangers into speaking English by simply adressing them in English, just because it's more convenient to me... I leave it to them to switch if they want, or suggest switching if I simply can't manage to convey my meaning. This comes down to being polite to others - if you are bilingual you have the luxury of being able to be quite polite to others in the area of languages. Let them pick the language! It is the conversation, not which language it is in, that matters. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| str0be Senior Member Korea, South Joined 5603 days ago 103 posts - 148 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, Korean | Message 56 of 80 17 June 2010 at 3:34am | IP Logged | ||
That isn't what happened in the situation I described. People should be aware that in Korea and China, some people will just try to get what they want out of the conversation (proofreading, pronunciation practice, ...) without concern for what the other party wants. They know they are being rude, and don't care. But Westerners find it difficult to just walk away because that itself instinctively seems somewhat rude. Nonetheless, ignoring that person or walking away is perfectly justified, in my opinion. Edited by str0be on 17 June 2010 at 3:35am 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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