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Warp3: Korean/Japanese (TAC 2015 東亞) | ||
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| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 385 of 479 24 August 2014 at 4:33pm | IP Logged |
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한국어 (2014년 8월 17일 - 2014년 8월 23일):
TTMIK: 8단 제26회-제30회 Extensive Reading: - 와라!편의점 (read daily) - Twitter (a few visits each week) Active Practice: Posts on Twitter GOAL STATUS: Week 35 Grammar 1 (Extract grammar from SRS): DONE (65 cards) Grammar 2 (Complete Let's Speak Korean 2부): 28/130 Grammar 3 (Complete Talk To Me In Korean): 235/265 Grammar 4 (Complete Survival Korean): Not Started Grammar 5 (Complete SK: Basic Grammar): Not Started Grammar 6 (Review Lonely Planet Phrasebook): Not Started Grammar 7 (Review Using Korean): Not Started Vocab 1 (SE read 24 songs): 15/24 Vocab 2 (INT read 1 TTMIK 이야기/month): 6/12 Production 1 (Memorize 1 song/month): 7/12 Production 2 (Write 2 posts/week): 26/52 Team Gumiho Challenges: 2/3 --- Japanese Update: Well I seem to have found a pretty notable hook for Japanese. Earlier in the week I had commented how much "AKBINGO!" I had already watched, and that continued (with increased intensity) for the rest of the week, especially once I found more episodes than just the first batch of 20, to the point that I watched very little Korean TV this week (and most of what I did watch was on Sunday). In fact, several times I found myself doing the "just one more episode" thing (after already having watched several in a row) because they are so short (24 min) and entertaining. Two of my main hooks in Korean are music and variety shows and this series combines both hooks into one show. So I ran the numbers to confirm just what the gap was between the two languages this week and...wow: 한국어: 07:15 (6 episodes of 5 shows) 日本語: 20:00 (50 episodes of 1 show) If you include the 4 episodes I watched last Saturday (which aren't included in that total and that was the first day I watched the show), I've watched nearly 22 hrs of a single show in 8 days! (NOTE: I've only actually watched up to episode 34 as I watched the first 20 episodes twice since that was all I had of the show initially.) Of course the really amazing bit is that I can't remember the last time I watched 27 hrs of TV in a single week. I'm honestly baffled how I somehow found that much time this past week. No wonder it seems like I didn't get anything accomplished this week, since I apparently spent all my free time watching Japanese TV. In other Japanese news, I'm still relearning the Kana at 5/day. Fortunately, "AKBINGO!" is similar to Korean variety shows in that a lot of text is displayed on-screen, so I'm getting a decent bit of reading practice already as well (at least for Kana-only terms and select names). I've also started to notice some things about Japanese pronunciation that I didn't catch before and it is due to comparing loan words between the two languages. For example, the loan word "hug" is 허그(heogeu) in Korean and ハグ(hagu) in Japanese. The Korean "eu" vowel and the Japanese "u" vowel are quite similar sounding (especially in loan words whether they both half disappear), but what caught my attention is that the first vowel in ハグ(hagu) sounds different than it would in 하그(hageu). I had previously considered the two "a" sounds to be near identical between those two languages but they really aren't. In fact, to my ears the あ/ア(a) in Japanese is almost more like a blend of the Korean 아(a) and 어(eo) vowels; it isn't as "open" sounding as the Korean 아 (a). (That's probably an odd way to describe it but it makes sense to me anyway.) Edited by Warp3 on 31 August 2014 at 1:49am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 386 of 479 26 August 2014 at 1:12pm | IP Logged |
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A new segment appeared in the last few episodes of AKBINGO! that I watched (mid-2009
episodes) and almost immediately became my favorite segment. Even better, the segment is language-related. At the time of these episodes, AKB48 was making their debut in France. As such, they opted to include a segment to "help them with their French". They accomplished this task by setting up a scenario (restaurant, clothing shop, etc.) and instructing them to ask the waiter, store clerk, etc. a certain question in French. They are then provided three sentences in French. One sentence matches their goal meaning; the other two use somewhat similar wording but mean something very different. After working through each sentence to figure out which one they think is correct, they make their choice and the water, store clerk etc. complies with their request. As you may have already guessed the two "wrong" answers are intentionally worded so that they provide a built-in penalty for the one who asked the question. For example the first scenario they did was asking a waiter for water. The choices provided to them meant: (a) May I please have a glass of water? (b) May I please have a disgusting glass of water? (c) Please throw water in my face. In another one of these segments, the scenario was asking a store clerk about handbags and one of the wrong answers instead said something to the effect of: "Please reveal the contents of my handbag." which would lead to them bringing out that member's bag from the dressing room and unloading the contents onto the table. Edited by Warp3 on 26 August 2014 at 1:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 387 of 479 31 August 2014 at 4:06pm | IP Logged |
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한국어 (2014년 8월 24일 - 2014년 8월 30일):
TTMIK: 9단 제1회-제5회 Extensive Reading: - 와라!편의점 (read daily) - Twitter (a few visits each week) Song Memorization: - Girls Day - 기대해 Comments: Like last week, I did fairly little TV watching in Korean, due to being so enamored by AKBINGO! leading to me watching it almost exclusively. I did watch 3 Korean shows this week (2 episodes of Gag Concert and one of Happy Together), but that's much lower than normal for me, especially with no music shows in the mix, and even lower than last week when I watched 7 shows (including 3 music shows). I almost skipped adding a new song to the lyrics deck this month (but I still did so as you can see above). The reason is that many of the songs I've added to Anki this year still have large sections of them suspended as I haven't actually finished memorizing them yet. (This is why my only requirement for this challenge was to add them as I know the length of time until I'm done with a song varies greatly based on the song.) As such, each month, I debate between adding another song (to try to complete my challenge goal of 1/month) or suspend adding new ones until I've made a bigger dent in the ones that are already there. Now, to clarify, some of the songs this year I've already memorized in their entirety, it's just that for many others that isn't true yet. In fact the song I added in January (AOA - Get Out) still isn't completely unsuspended yet (though granted it's only the rap that I'm taking my time on with that one). GOAL STATUS: Week 36 Grammar 1 (Extract grammar from SRS): DONE (65 cards) Grammar 2 (Complete Let's Speak Korean 2부): 28/130 Grammar 3 (Complete Talk To Me In Korean): 240/265 Grammar 4 (Complete Survival Korean): Not Started Grammar 5 (Complete SK: Basic Grammar): Not Started Grammar 6 (Review Lonely Planet Phrasebook): Not Started Grammar 7 (Review Using Korean): Not Started Vocab 1 (SE read 24 songs): 15/24 Vocab 2 (INT read 1 TTMIK 이야기/month): 6/12 Production 1 (Memorize 1 song/month): 8/12 Production 2 (Write 2 posts/week): 26/52 Team Gumiho Challenges: 2/3 --- 日本語 （2014年 8月 24日 - 2014年 8月 30日): (Yes, Japanese has its own section again.) All the basic gojuuon Kana are in rotation in my Kana deck now so I've unsuspended the dakuten/handakuten cards now. After those I'll feed in the youon (combination Kana) cards which is most of the remaining deck (leaving only the "obsolete" characters). I'm still watching AKBINGO! obsessively (and now its previous iterations called AKB 1じ ５９ふん and AKB ０じ５９ふん). It's taking a bit of a toll on my Korean TV watching, but I'm not horribly worried about that at the moment since I'm still getting exposure to Korean from other sources right now. I do need to feed some Korean TV back into the rotation to balance it out some, though. I've started a new deck of Japanese names in an attempt to help me with learning to pronounce common Kanji name patterns. While creating this deck, I quickly learned that many of the romanizations of these names don't *quite* represent the Kana sounds (usually by leaving out double vowels in the romanized version). For example, two of the AKB48 members they've shown frequently on AKBINGO! have 大島 as the family name. The subs romanize this as Oshima, but you have to type Ooshima (pronounced roughly the same but you hold the "O" sound longer) to get the right Kanji to appear (which makes sense as the long "o" sound is the "large" prefix in Japanese and that first Kanji means "large" (pronounced "대" in Korean)). I understand why they do this (since it's easy to misread "Ooshima" as "Ushima") but until I noticed this I hadn't actually realized that the name was starting with a long vowel when being spoken. Due to the simpler sound set in Japanese I was hoping I could be a bit less cautious about romanized names (especially with only 5 vowels present), but I'll have to keep long vowels in mind more now (and "ou" combos that sometimes collapse to just "o" when romanized). Edited by Warp3 on 31 August 2014 at 4:37pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 388 of 479 02 September 2014 at 4:53pm | IP Logged |
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I was browsing Amazon last night (and bought "Remembering the Kanji 1" and "How to
Improve Your Foreign Language Immediately") and saw "Japanese for Busy People 1: Kana Edition" which reminded me I had wanted to buy that last time I was studying Japanese (and I've been pondering again which materials to use for the "beyond Pimsleur" phase). Well I looked through my language materials this morning before work and apparently I already have purchased that book, along with "Japanese for Everyone". So I guess my materials for Japanese will be Pimsleur (own Level 1 already and intend to buy the rest), Japanese for Busy People, Japanese for Everyone, 일본어 무작정 따라하기, and RTK1. Most importantly it will be paralleled with heavy doses of Japanese media. I'm planning to leverage Korean as much as possible during this process, both to keep my Korean going strong and to take advantages of the similarities in the two languages. This includes linking Japanese concepts to Korean rather than English wherever possible (which will work better anyway for much of the grammar and vocabulary). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 389 of 479 07 September 2014 at 6:27am | IP Logged |
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한국어 (2014년 8월 31일 - 2014년 9월 6일):
TTMIK: 9단 제6회-제10회 Suspended Korean Cards: 24 (all cards from July 2013) Extensive Reading: - 와라!편의점 (read daily) - Twitter (a few visits each week) GOAL STATUS: Week 37 Grammar 1 (Extract grammar from SRS): DONE (65 cards) Grammar 2 (Complete Let's Speak Korean 2부): 28/130 Grammar 3 (Complete Talk To Me In Korean): 245/265 Grammar 4 (Complete Survival Korean): Not Started Grammar 5 (Complete SK: Basic Grammar): Not Started Grammar 6 (Review Lonely Planet Phrasebook): Not Started Grammar 7 (Review Using Korean): Not Started Vocab 1 (SE read 24 songs): 15/24 Vocab 2 (INT read 1 TTMIK 이야기/month): 6/12 Production 1 (Memorize 1 song/month): 8/12 Production 2 (Write 2 posts/week): 26/52 Team Gumiho Challenges: 2/3 --- 日本語 (2014年 8月 31日 - 2014年 9月 6日): I've added back my old 日本語 deck to Anki, which is about 98% Pimsleur material with the rest being items I added here and there that I wanted to learn (like かんこくご（韓国 語） = the Korean language). I also forgot until I did this that I had used Korean for the first set of answers on these cards (followed by English and/or Spanish). Since I was already planning to try laddering Japanese through Korean as much as possible, I'm going through and removing non-Korean answers from these cards (I'm leaving some English in the grammar notes and comments, but not for definitions). I briefly tried to restart Pimsleur Japanese this week, but then decided against it. Running both it and TTMIK in parallel takes up nearly all of my commute (both ways) and I've made that mistake enough times before to know that it saps motivation doing that (it works much better to leave one commute free for music). I've only got 4 weeks of TTMIK Level 9 left (at my current rate of 5/week) so I'll either wait until those are done to restart Pimsleur Japanese or shift one of them to a time outside the commute (probably TTMIK since Pimsleur is more audio focused but TTMIK can benefit from reviewing the PDF in tandem). I'm noticing some interesting parallels between my restart of Japanese and my original start of Korean that hopefully bodes well for Japanese: 1) When I was initially introduced to Korean it was almost entirely through a single girl group (SNSD) then started to branch out from there; my reattachment to Japanese has been through a single girl group (AKB48, which I wasn't particularly fond of before but that was from 2 album downloads that were apparently a very poor sampling of their set list) and has already started branching. 2) Very soon afterward I discovered a second girl group that caught my attention (Kara for Korean; Idoling!!! for Japanese), but (at least initially) didn't pull me away from the first one (Kara didn't really hook me until several months later when the "Revolution" album came out). I discovered Idoling!!! when they appeared as guests on "AKBINGO!" (the Japanese really love their exclamation points don't they). 3) A certain show caught my attention to the point where I watched it almost at the exclusion of watching anything else (for Korean it was the SNSD + KARA episode of "놀러 와" (Come to Play); for Japanese it has been the series "AKBINGO!"). I watched that one episode of 놀러와 so many times I quickly lost count. In fact for a while there, every new lesson of Pimsleur I would finish would result in me rewatching the show to see if I "caught anything new". AKBINGO! has me similarly hooked, but at least I'm hooked on a series (with years of episodes), not just a single episode this time. Even so, I've watched some of the episodes several times already. The more I read up on Kanji studies (specifically RTK-style methods) the more I'm realizing that the main issue with my Hanja recall was likely the fact that I was doing them all passively. That seemed like a logical choice since I just wanted to be able to recognize them, but now I'm starting to realize they would have stuck better as active cards like RTK recommends. In fact, I'm actually starting in on RTK now (using the book to learn and an RTK Anki deck to review) and drawing the characters actively already has me remembering some early (and thus simple) characters better than I had learned them with my passive deck (since I wasn't focusing on the details of the character, just "recognizing" it). For example, several early characters use either 日 or 田 as a primitive and I honestly couldn't tell you from memory which one some characters used, but now I'm positive since I have to produce it myself or I fail the card. Another example are the numbers 5, 7, and 9 (五, 七, and 九). Despite them looking different, I frequently confused them in the past. Now that I'm generating them actively, though, I'm not sure I *could* mix them up; they are simply too distinct in my head now. Also since I'm already somewhat embedded in Japanese and starting to learn it in parallel with RTK, I'm opting to do "RTK Lite" entries first, then the rest later. The "RTK Lite" set is about 1/3 the size of the full RTK 1+3 set. It was formed by taking all the JLPT 2 Kanji plus any Kanji that RTK uses as primitives for those Kanji (so you can still build the Kanji from knowledge of existing parts which is the core of the point behind RTK). After finishing those 1116 Kanji, I can then circle back and grab the remainder. The reasoning behind RTK Lite is that these are the most useful of the Kanji in RTK and are also the most likely to appear in study materials, so by doing those first you can start in on studying the Japanese language itself (including Kanji-based textbooks) while continuing the remaining RTK Kanji in parallel (rather than waiting until RTK1 is done like Heisig originally recommended). Plus I'm assuming a huge chunk of those JLPT2 Kanji are the ones I already know (at least somewhat) as Hanja anyway, so I'll really just be "converting" them in my head rather than actually learning them fresh. Hopefully that means I can make it through RTK Lite much faster than someone who is new to them altogether. Current RTK Lite Status: Lessons Done = 3 Kanji Covered = 52 Active SRS Cards = 42 (To clarify why those numbers differ, I'm still going through all the characters when doing the lessons in the RTK 1 book, however I'm only activating the "RTK Lite" characters in the Anki deck for review for now. Thus 10 of those Kanji are still suspended in the SRS deck.) (NOTE: Those stats are actually from one day since I didn't start RTK until Saturday.) --- Overall comments: Well instead of showing signs of slowing down, my Japanese media addiction seems to be intensifying. This past week I watched a grand total of *1* Korean TV show; the previous week I only watched 3. Meanwhile, I've watched an absolutely *insane* number of episodes of "AKB１じ５９ふん/AKB０じ５９ふん/AKBINGO!". Beyond that, I've also found myself biasing Japanese songs lately on my MP3 player (especially after loading up some more Japanese music recently). While it seems like it is causing some level of Korean neglect at the moment, I'm going to let it run its course for now and see what kind of progress I can make with it. The last thing I want to do is be overprotective of Korean again which seems to do nothing but stomp out the flame of interest in the other language. Korean has been around long enough in my life (5 straight years now) that it's not going anywhere anytime soon. Besides which I'm already leveraging Korean in my Japanese studies which should make a great language bridge. Plus now that I really think about it: I'm still listening to plenty of Korean music, doing TTMIK lessons, doing SRS reps of Korean material, have a large number of UIs set to Korean (cellphone, tablet, Linux browsing VM, MP3 players, media player PC, GPS, etc.), so it isn't like I'm not still being constantly exposed to it. I do need to get Korean TV fed back in before too long, but I can definitely handle Japanese dominating my TV for a while longer (especially if it keeps deepening those hooks that keep me going long term). Also, I've removed "Spanish" and "Team Lobo" from the title of this log and placed "Japanese" back up there. I'm leaving "Spanish" in my "studies" list for now (set to "on and off"), but it has definitely stalled and it's not likely I'll be doing much with Spanish in the near future. Edited by Warp3 on 07 September 2014 at 6:33am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 390 of 479 07 September 2014 at 4:40pm | IP Logged |
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The handakuten/dakuten cards are all in rotation now, so I've unsuspended the 96
youon (combination Kana) cards. Once I've got those in play, the only remaining cards in the deck are the 4 "obsolete" Kana. I just compared my review speed between my new Kanji deck and my old Hanja deck and the results were surprising. My Hanja deck has an average review rate (I can't check today's review rate as I haven't done reviews for weeks now) of 4.2 cards/min; today's review rate for my new Kanji deck (which I started yesterday and has 42 active cards) was 8.4 cards/min! Yes most of the cards are simpler cards since they are from the first three lessons, but: several of them are Kanji that are completely new to me, many already have fairly sizable stroke counts (like 博 which uses the keyword of "Dr." (it is the 박 from 박사 (Dr.) in Korean) and was brand new to me), and I'm writing the characters out before hitting the answer button. Despite the fact that I'm actively recreating these characters (stroke by stroke) for each card, I'm still at double the review speed of my old deck. I expected to be slower at first until I got the hang of producing them from keywords, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Even if I count my average (i.e. including yesterday's reviews, my average speed in the new deck is 5.7 cards/min which is *still* faster than the old deck. When paired with the fact that I feel like I know these characters more thoroughly now I can see why RTK works so well. In fact, I missed 1 Kanji card in my reviews today and that was only because I got two similar keywords crossed (nightbreak and morning). I fully knew the character, I just mismatched the pairings. Also, I can't really describe why, but this new method seems more "fun" than the old one. Maybe that's just because it is new so perhaps the novelty will wear off, but drawing out the characters makes it more interesting. (For reference, I draw the characters with pen and paper the first time I review a batch of characters then I switch to "finger on palm drawing" for future reviews). Edited by Warp3 on 07 September 2014 at 4:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 391 of 479 09 September 2014 at 1:23am | IP Logged |
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I've decided to accelerate the pace on TTMIK, so I can finish level 9 and start using my
morning commute for Japanese instead. I'm doing 4 per day (vs. 2 per day earlier in the year and 1 per day recently) which will have me completing TTMIK Level 9 by the end of this week. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5533 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 392 of 479 14 September 2014 at 9:17am | IP Logged |
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한국어 (2014년 9월 7일 - 2014년 9월 13일):
TTMIK: 9단 제11회-제30회 Extensive Reading: - 와라!편의점 (read daily) - Twitter (a few visits each week) Comments: I've finished TTMIK levels 1-9 (and level 10 is still "coming soon") so that TAC goal is now complete! GOAL STATUS: Week 38 Grammar 1 (Extract grammar from SRS): DONE (65 cards) Grammar 2 (Complete Let's Speak Korean 2부): 28/130 Grammar 3 (Complete Talk To Me In Korean): DONE Grammar 4 (Complete Survival Korean): Not Started Grammar 5 (Complete SK: Basic Grammar): Not Started Grammar 6 (Review Lonely Planet Phrasebook): Not Started Grammar 7 (Review Using Korean): Not Started Vocab 1 (SE read 24 songs): 15/24 Vocab 2 (INT read 1 TTMIK 이야기/month): 6/12 Production 1 (Memorize 1 song/month): 8/12 Production 2 (Write 2 posts/week): 26/52 Team Gumiho Challenges: 2/3 --- 日本語 (2014年 9月 7日 - 2014年 9月 13日): Current RTK Lite Status: Lessons Done = 3 -> 8 (56) Kanji Covered = 52 -> 172 (2042) Active SRS Cards = 42 -> 133 (1116) (The values before the arrow are last week's values. The values in parenthesis are the totals for completing RTK1 / RTK Lite.) Comments: Now that I've completed my TTMIK goal for TAC (thus freeing up some audio time during my commute), I'm going to start in on Pimsleur Japanese this coming week. I've done Level 1 of this course before (a couple years ago when I tried learning Japanese previously), but never went on into any of the higher levels (as my interest in Japanese dropped before that happened). I may take the opportunity to dive into one or more of my textbooks as well in parallel with Pimsleur since learning the same topic from multiple angles has proved useful in both Korean and Spanish. I'm going through the Kanji at a pretty decent pace considering that I'm only studying and adding them to the SRS on weekends (and just reviewing Anki during the week). So far, I'm also reviewing with much higher success rates than I was with my Hanja deck thus leading to a faster rate of fall to the daily review times. In fact, that only deck that is getting fairly high failure rates at the moment is the "names" deck for Japanese. However, I already expected this (so I'm not really discouraged by it) and I can tell this deck is paying off already as I'm starting to get better at figuring out readings for the Kanji used in names (especially those in the family names which seem to be more predictable). This reminds me of something else I'm noticing with Japanese readings. I'm starting to catch certain "conversion patterns" for converting Sino-Korean reading to Sino-Japanese readings. For example, I noticed that one of the readings of 大 is だい(dai) as in 大好き. I had also noticed that 愛 is あい(ai) as in 愛してる. If you've studied Korean Hanja you may know that those are read as 대(dae) and 애(ae) in Korean. So Korean readings with "ae" seem to convert to "ai" for their Japanese equivalents. But the interesting part when you think about it more deeply is that the Korean 애(ae) vowel is technically a diphthong originally derived from merging 아(a) and 이(i). Hmmm... Edited by Warp3 on 14 September 2014 at 9:24am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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