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TAC 2013 Team Schnitzel mit pommes und 饭 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6083 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes  1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 97 of 292 17 June 2012 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks fortheo! I've made use of that site today! I've been at Lang-8 all day, helping my fellow language learners and going through all the entries marked "native language" for Japanese. That's a new thing, as far as I know. There was one thing I came across, and I'm not very good with casual speech but if anyone passes through here and sees this,
勉強しないと... The person translated it to "I have to study" so is this a short form for しなかればならない? I've written two French entries at lang-8 today. I hope I can write more during the week but it's hard finding things to write about. edit: I'm really considering getting a Premium Account at Lang-8 just so I can add more languages. My two are now French and Turkish. I need to add Japanese and German (needs polishing). They're raising their prices from 45 to 65 -July- 1st so I need to hurry up and find some money quick^^ Edited by Sunja on 17 June 2012 at 5:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5980 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 98 of 292 17 June 2012 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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OK, speaking as a learner rather than a native speaker, I think that the format of saying "I have to..." in Japanese tends to translate more literally to something like "it is no good if I don't...". Double negatives seem to abound in this language, don't they?
So anyway, in the case of しなければならない the しなければ is just the negative conditional of する (if I don't do...). Very often in casual speach the ～ならない bit is dropped, so you are left with しなければ implying "I have to do". This is often further shortened to しなきゃ! しないと is also a negative conditional of する. I think to turn it into a complete phrase meaning "have to" you would say something like しないとだめ (but I could be wrong). Nevertheless, whatever the ending bit really should be, again in casual speech it is often dropped (which is why I can't remember it properly in this case) and you are left with しないと implying "I have to do". Another way of saying "have to" is the format しなくてはいけません. Once again, in this case the いけません bit is often dropped in casual speech and the しなくては bit is contracted to しなくちゃ. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6083 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 99 of 292 17 June 2012 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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ahh. So I should view it as "if I don't do then..."
I have to review my casual speech. That's what I get for not reading manga. Thanks, g-bod! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5980 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 100 of 292 17 June 2012 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Context is everything (as usual), but I think it is quite normal to view it as "I have to".
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| atama warui Triglot Senior Member Japan Joined 4699 days ago 594 posts - 985 votes Speaks: German*, English, Japanese | Message 101 of 292 18 June 2012 at 1:09am | IP Logged | ||
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勉強しないと is a casual, yet still polite version of
勉強しないといけない the ～ばならない version means the same, but is a little more stiff. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Woodsei Bilingual Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Woodsei Joined 4795 days ago 614 posts - 782 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Egyptian)* Studies: Russian, Japanese, Hungarian | Message 102 of 292 18 June 2012 at 8:11am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the links, Sunja!
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sunja Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6083 days ago 2020 posts - 2295 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German Studies: French, Mandarin | Message 103 of 292 18 June 2012 at 10:24am | IP Logged | ||
you're very welcome^^ And thanks to g-bod and atama warui for steering me in the right direction! I'll be at Kim's today, trying to get caught up on 「いけない」 and 「ならない」 . 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Woodsei Bilingual Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Woodsei Joined 4795 days ago 614 posts - 782 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Egyptian)* Studies: Russian, Japanese, Hungarian | Message 104 of 292 18 June 2012 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Onve again, Tae Kim's guide is a heaven sent. I never attempted reading it from cover-to-
cover, but whenever I try to look up something, the explanations are pretty straightforward and clear. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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