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Ellsworth’s TAC 2012 Team ɬ and Sputnik | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5127 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes  Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 25 of 144 14 January 2012 at 3:02am | IP Logged | ||
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Ellsworth, I admire your efforts. Sadly there is no such thing as regular 'r' for an English speaker trying to learn Slavic language. The 'r' in question is a trill, rolled 'r' (р in cyrylic) which is also one of the two variants of 'r' used in Spanish: the 'rr' sound as in 'perro' (alveoral trill). рь is transcribed as /rʲ/ which can be broken down to two sounds. First one is this trill and the second one is palatalisation which means transforming rolled r into a [j] glide -> first syllable of "yes". If you try to trill your r's for a while producing machinelike sound and then pushed your tongue forward to combine it with [j] you have a good chance to succeed. pronunciation sample Good luck! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4958 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 26 of 144 14 January 2012 at 4:03am | IP Logged | ||
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All this advice is very much appreciated! I am not getting it just yet, but hopefully
soon. I will forge on with studies despite maybe mispronouncing some words while continuing to try to improve upon my pronunciation. Or might it be too risky of developing bad habits? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 27 of 144 14 January 2012 at 5:27am | IP Logged | ||
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"The lips are spread slightly. The tip of the tongue touches the area behind the upper
teeth. The sides of the tongue are pressed to the upper lateral teeth. The middle part of the tongue is slightly raised. The tip of the tongue vibrates because of the air stream. The vocal cords vibrate." I don't know where it vibrates, to my mind it just touches the alveolars once. The sound is pronounced with the area just before the tip. So it's like saying дь but the tip of the tongue is higher. To me this sound was easier than the hard r. Is the hard r actually a trill or a flap in Russian? What do you think of it? So, is it like Spanish r or closer to Spanish rr? Edited by Марк on 14 January 2012 at 5:29am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 5127 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 28 of 144 14 January 2012 at 11:29am | IP Logged | ||
I think that hard r is a trill in the Slavic languages, it is like Spanish 'rr'. According to Spanish IPA "The letter 'r' represents the trill [r] (1) when written double (e.g. tierra); (2) when word-initial (e.g. razón); syllable-finally and when it follows 'l', 'n', or 's' (e.g. alrededor, sonrisa, Israel, parte)—otherwise, it represents the apical flap [ɾ] (e.g. para, padre)." Source: Spanish alphabet Russian 'r' has got two variants: the hard trill [r] and the soft palatalised trill /rʲ/. Russian alphabet I pronunce flap consciously, I'd love to get rid of it and start to do it automaticly, maybe one day I will not have to think about that one and only 'tap' of the tongue. My Slavic mind is set on rolling the r's. Edited by Gosiak on 14 January 2012 at 11:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4958 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 29 of 144 15 January 2012 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here are some sentences I have worked on today, all words and conjugations from memory.
I hope to be able to upload a recording of me reading it. Вчера я ходил в школу. Сегодня я иду отцу. Завтра я пойду на работу. Ты в море. Она меня любила. Я не любил её. Я не хочу быть с ею в здадние. Я хочу быть с матерью на дому с окнами в деревне. Брат меня не любит. Я не дам ему ружьё. Он давал мне стол. Я ему скажу. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5057 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 30 of 144 15 January 2012 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Сегодня я иду К отцу. Я не хочу быть с Нею в здании. Я хочу быть с матерью в доме с
окнами в деревне. А бывают дома без окон? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4958 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 31 of 144 15 January 2012 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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haha я не знаю... I just wanted to use a plural.
and thanks for the corrections. Edited by Ellsworth on 16 January 2012 at 6:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4958 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 32 of 144 15 January 2012 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here is my French paragraph I wrote today. This was like the first day I have really
seriously looked seriously at French. May be a bit more difficult than I planned... Je veux apprendre le Français car je veux pouvoir parler avec des hommes qui parlent le Français et je veux lire des lire que étaient écrits des écrivains françaises. Le Français est aussi une langue belle. Je n’ai étudié jamais le Français, et je ne sais pas si je la peux apprendre. Il n’est pas clair qu’il soit possible car je dois étudier des autres choses. Mais, je ne serai pas très déçu. J’aime apprendre des langues, et j’aime le processus autant que le résultat. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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